| My niece's talent. | Something worth listening to, for all of us. |
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 #1 (permalink) Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:11 am 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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There's a big difference between what we say and what they hear.
By Chris Seiple
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In the course of my travels – from the Middle East to Central Asia to Southeast Asia – it has been my great privilege to meet and become friends with many devout Muslims. These friendships are defined by frank respect as we listen to each other; understand and agree on the what, why, and how of our disagreements, political and theological; and, most of all, deepen our points of commonality as a result.
I have learned much from my Muslim friends, foremost this: Political disagreements come and go, but genuine respect for each other, rooted in our respective faith traditions, does not. If there is no respect, there is no relationship, merely a transactional encounter that serves no one in the long term.
As President Obama considers his first speech in a Muslim majority country (he visits Turkey April 6-7), and as the US national security establishment reviews its foreign policy and public diplomacy, I want to share the advice given to me from dear Muslim friends worldwide regarding words and concepts that are not useful in building relationships with them. Obviously, we are not going to throw out all of these terms, nor should we. But we do need to be very careful about how we use them, and in what context.
1. "The Clash of Civilizations." Invariably, this kind of discussion ends up with us as the good guy and them as the bad guy. There is no clash of civilizations, only a clash between those who are for civilization, and those who are against it. Civilization has many characteristics but two are foundational: 1) It has no place for those who encourage, invite, and/or commit the murder of innocent civilians; and 2) It is defined by institutions that protect and promote both the minority and the transparent rule of law.
2. "Secular." The Muslim ear tends to hear "godless" with the pronunciation of this word. And a godless society is simply inconceivable to the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. Pluralism – which encourages those with (and those without) a God-based worldview to have a welcomed and equal place in the public square – is a much better word.
3. "Assimilation." This word suggests that the minority Muslim groups in North America and Europe need to look like the majority, Christian culture. Integration, on the other hand, suggests that all views, majority and minority, deserve equal respect as long as each is willing to be civil with one another amid the public square of a shared society.
4. "Reformation." Muslims know quite well, and have an opinion about, the battle taking place within Islam and what it means to be an orthodox and devout Muslim. They don't need to be insulted by suggesting they follow the Christian example of Martin Luther. Instead, ask how Muslims understand ijtihad, or reinterpretation, within their faith traditions and cultural communities.
5. "Jihadi." The jihad is an internal struggle first, a process of improving one's spiritual self-discipline and getting closer to God. The lesser jihad is external, validating "just war" when necessary. By calling the groups we are fighting "jihadis," we confirm their own – and the worldwide Muslim public's – perception that they are religious. They are not. They are terrorists, hirabists, who consistently violate the most fundamental teachings of the Holy Koran and mainstream Islamic scholars and imams.
6. "Moderate." This ubiquitous term is meant politically but can be received theologically. If someone called me a "moderate Christian," I would be deeply offended. I believe in an Absolute who also commands me to love my neighbor. Similarly, it is not an oxymoron to be a mainstream Muslim who believes in an Absolute. A robust and civil pluralism must make room for the devout of all faiths, and none.
7. "Interfaith." This term conjures up images of watered-down, lowest common denominator statements that avoid the tough issues and are consequently irrelevant. "Multifaith" suggests that we name our deep and irreconcilable theological differences in order to work across them for practical effect – according to the very best of our faith traditions, much of which are values we share.
8. "Freedom." Unfortunately, "freedom," as expressed in American foreign policy, does not always seek to engage how the local community and culture understands it. Absent such an understanding, freedom can imply an unbound licentiousness. The balance between the freedom to something (liberty) and the freedom from something (security) is best understood in a conversation with the local context and, in particular, with the Muslims who live there. "Freedom" is best framed in the context of how they understand such things as peace, justice, honor, mercy, and compassion.
9. "Religious Freedom." Sadly, this term too often conveys the perception that American foreign policy is only worried about the freedom of Protestant evangelicals to proselytize and convert, disrupting the local culture and indigenous Christians. Although not true, I have found it better to define religious freedom as the promotion of respect and reconciliation with the other at the intersection of culture and the rule of law – sensitive to the former and consistent with the latter.
10. "Tolerance." Tolerance is not enough. Allowing for someone's existence, or behavior, doesn't build the necessary relationships of trust – across faiths and cultures – needed to tackle the complex and global challenges that our civilization faces. We need to be honest with and respect one another enough to name our differences and commonalities, according to the inherent dignity we each have as fellow creations of God called to walk together in peace and justice, mercy and compassion.
The above words and phrases will differ and change over the years, according to the cultural and ethnic context, and the (mis)perceptions that Muslims and non-Muslims have of one another. While that is to be expected, what counts most is the idea that we are earnestly trying to listen to and understand each other better; demonstrating respect as a result. |
what do you think? |
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 Aryam
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Joined: 29 Oct 2008
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| #2 (permalink) Wed Jun 17, 2009 0:11 am 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| I think people should use the words they mean instead of trying to avoid certain words in order to keep from offending group sensitivities. Most Muslims were not invited to immigrate to the US, but came here of their own volition. It's up to them to understand what we are saying without taking offense at certain specific words. It's not up to us to live under a dhimmi just because they have moved to our neighborhood. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #3 (permalink) Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:56 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I think people should use the words they mean instead of trying to avoid certain words in order to keep from offending group sensitivities. Most Muslims were not invited to immigrate to the US, but came here of their own volition. It's up to them to understand what we are saying without taking offense at certain specific words. |
logical. |
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Happytofita
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| #4 (permalink) Wed Jun 17, 2009 13:22 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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It's also logical because majority Muslim countries -- and especially countries where all religions but Islam are forbidden -- don't make any accommodation to the beliefs or sensitivities of people who are not Muslim. In Saudi Arabia they jail people from the United States or the Philippines, for example, and in the past have even gone so far as to cut off people's heads, for carrying Bibles or other non-Muslim religious literature. They will even arrest people for holding non-Muslim religious services in private, if they discover them. Everybody knows that if you go to countries like that, there are certain things you had better not do or carry with you. The travel guidebooks tell us this, the US State Department tells us this; the information is everywhere. They even tell us not to be seen eating in the daytime during Ramadan, even though our religions don't require us to observe Ramadan.
Considering that Muslims in many countries are so intolerant of other religions, it is outrageous to expect that citizens of non-Muslim countries should accommodate the esoteric sensitivities of Muslims. We give them the same freedom of religion that everyone else gets, and that's enough.
Plus, many Muslims are very insensitive to people's feelings when they come here. Near where I live, there is an area that amounts to a Muslim ghetto. The Muslims aren't forced to live there; most of them prefer to live there in order to minimize contact with non-Muslims. Many of them don't even bother to learn English, but when they do take English classes, there is sometimes trouble due to their hostility to other people's religions. The Muslims from places like Algeria and Lebanon are usually more sophisticated and don't cause problems. Muslims from East Asian countries, like Indonesia, are also nice. However, those from some other countries are often a problem. A typical situation would be this: A Muslim starts attacking a Mexican's Catholic religion based on fallacies that are common in the Muslim world, such as lie that Christians believe in three gods, and other ridiculous things. The Mexican kindly explains that Catholics do not believe in three gods and refutes the other fallacies the Muslim believes about her religion. After she does this, the Muslim gets angry, claiming that she has insulted his religion. But she hasn't insulted his religion. She has said nothing at all about his religion. She merely explained her own religion briefly so that he will be correctly informed. I have seen things like this happen many times. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #5 (permalink) Wed Jun 17, 2009 18:56 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| In Saudi Arabia they jail people from the United States or the Philippines, for example, and in the past have even gone so far as to cut off people's heads, for carrying Bibles or other non-Muslim religious literature. They will even arrest people for holding non-Muslim religious services in private, if they discover them. |
Actually, I have never heard of such a thing. But I have heard of intolerance in Saudi Arabia in days gone by.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Everybody knows that if you go to countries like that, there are certain things you had better not do or carry with you. The travel guidebooks tell us this, the US State Department tells us this; the information is everywhere. They even tell us not to be seen eating in the daytime during Ramadan, even though our religions don't require us to observe Ramadan. |
Here where I live, I sometimes see secular Moroccans eating in the street in Ramadan. I once saw one in a very crowded place eating a banana. It was odd, since he was a Moroccan. But with foreigners, people just do not care. McDonald's is always opened. And you can see some people having lunch there in Ramadan.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Plus, many Muslims are very insensitive to people's feelings when they come here. Near where I live, there is an area that amounts to a Muslim ghetto. The Muslims aren't forced to live there; most of them prefer to live there in order to minimize contact with non-Muslims. Many of them don't even bother to learn English, but when they do take English classes, there is sometimes trouble due to their hostility to other people's religions. |
My professor told us once about ghetto conditions. What he said does not differ from what you mentioned, which is sad. I really feel sad when I hear about such things.  |
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Happytofita
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
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| #6 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 18:11 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I think people should use the words they mean instead of trying to avoid certain words in order to keep from offending group sensitivities. Most Muslims were not invited to immigrate to the US, but came here of their own volition. It's up to them to understand what we are saying without taking offense at certain specific words. It's not up to us to live under a dhimmi just because they have moved to our neighborhood. |
Yes that is right, it's up to them to understand , but it's also up to the Western to understand the concept of Islam, anyway, some words don't need to allocated, but it was circulated to all Muslims. |
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Aryam
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 103
Location: Sweet Moon
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| #7 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 19:07 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Aryam wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I think people should use the words they mean instead of trying to avoid certain words in order to keep from offending group sensitivities. Most Muslims were not invited to immigrate to the US, but came here of their own volition. It's up to them to understand what we are saying without taking offense at certain specific words. It's not up to us to live under a dhimmi just because they have moved to our neighborhood. |
Yes that is right, it's up to them to understand , but it's also up to the Western to understand the concept of Islam, anyway, some words don't need to allocated, but it was circulated to all Muslims. |
It's up to Muslims not to talk out of both sides of their mouths all the time. And it's perfectly possible to understand Muslims without giving them things that they want but have no right to.
Additionally, if Muslims become numerous in a country -- even if they are less than one percent of the total population -- they start demanding that the country that they have moved to begin exempting them from certain laws that are supposed to apply to all citizens. They start pressing for the establishment of shariah courts for resolution of their legal matters, in place of the civil courts of their adopted country. If they want to be ruled under Islamic law, they should live in an Islamic country. However, they start demanding little by little that the majority population begin to serve or subjugate itself to Islam, beginning in small ways. They do not have the right to do this. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #8 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 20:36 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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I'm muslim and i 'm teaching english language and i'm writing to you and i'm glad to do so please don't juge all muslims because of a behaviour if they told you not to be seen eating in the daytime during Ramadan,i think that is up to you if you want to respect people " in all religion there are sinners "the bible says that stealing is a sin but ......???
they behave in this way because they are perscuted and your messages prove that any way your are welcom in my country Algeria. |
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Nanal
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| #9 (permalink) Fri Jun 19, 2009 14:54 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Happytofita wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| In Saudi Arabia they jail people from the United States or the Philippines, for example, and in the past have even gone so far as to cut off people's heads, for carrying Bibles or other non-Muslim religious literature. They will even arrest people for holding non-Muslim religious services in private, if they discover them. |
Actually, I have never heard of such a thing. But I have heard of intolerance in Saudi Arabia in days gone by. |
Happytofita, I think you need to spend some time in a democratic Western country to understand what we mean by freedom of religion. Many people in Muslim countries seem to think their governments are tolerant of other religions because there are religious minorities there who are not jailed or killed.
There is still religious oppression in Saudi Arabia, as there is in many Muslim countries. It is still illegal there to practice any religion other than Islam, and they still arrest and imprison people for it, although no news of beheadings has reached me lately. You can read about typical situations in these articles:
http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/SaudiArabia.htm
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14684&size=A
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14986&size=A
Freedom of religion in the Western sense means that anyone is allowed to practice his religion in public or in private (excluding crazy religions that would clearly violate the law, such as Satanist religions that involve pedophilia or even murder). Any religious community can freely build or repair their own house of worship, such as a church, synagogue or mosque, without having to get permission from the authorities of another religion. (In many Muslim countries, for example, Christians need to get the permission of Muslim authorities in order to repair their churches. In the West, this would be considered a violation of their rights, and Muslims in the US don't need the permission of Christian religious authorities to build or repair a mosque.) Anyone of any religion is allowed to print, sell or distribute their religion's literature without interference.
In Muslim countries they find many ways to interfere with people's practice of other religions, while still claiming to be "tolerant", and there is even a great exodus now of Christians and Maendeans because of religious oppression and even physical attacks. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #10 (permalink) Fri Jun 19, 2009 17:26 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Aryam wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I think people should use the words they mean instead of trying to avoid certain words in order to keep from offending group sensitivities. Most Muslims were not invited to immigrate to the US, but came here of their own volition. It's up to them to understand what we are saying without taking offense at certain specific words. It's not up to us to live under a dhimmi just because they have moved to our neighborhood. |
Yes that is right, it's up to them to understand , but it's also up to the Western to understand the concept of Islam, anyway, some words don't need to allocated, but it was circulated to all Muslims. |
It's up to Muslims not to talk out of both sides of their mouths all the time. And it's perfectly possible to understand Muslims without giving them things that they want but have no right to.
Additionally, if Muslims become numerous in a country -- even if they are less than one percent of the total population -- they start demanding that the country that they have moved to begin exempting them from certain laws that are supposed to apply to all citizens. They start pressing for the establishment of shariah courts for resolution of their legal matters, in place of the civil courts of their adopted country. If they want to be ruled under Islamic law, they should live in an Islamic country. However, they start demanding little by little that the majority population begin to serve or subjugate itself to Islam, beginning in small ways. They do not have the right to do this. |
Actually some Muslims country don't have shariah courts, also they don't applied Islamic law as it is, but what you said Seems to me strange. I think mutual respect is the basis of everything. |
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Aryam
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 103
Location: Sweet Moon
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:53 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Aryam wrote: |
| Actually some Muslims country don't have shariah courts, also they don't applied Islamic law as it is, but what you said Seems to me strange. I think mutual respect is the basis of everything. |
What would you think of this situation? Muslims immigrate to a non-Muslim country and attend university there. Then they demand that the university -- where they are an immigrant minority -- change the whole university's class schedule around their prayer times, and that the university use taxpayer money to build foot baths for them.
Or this situation: Muslims immigrate to a non-Muslim country and many of them get jobs in one city driving taxis. After there are enough of these Muslim taxi drivers, it becomes almost impossible for a blind person to get a taxi ride, because the Muslim drivers won't pick up blind people guided by leader dogs. (These are clean, well-behaved dogs that are trained to serve as the blind person's "eyes".)
Or this situation: Muslims immigrate to a country and apply to work in big supermarkets (or "hypermarkets", as the French would call them). The local employer hires them, but then the new Muslim employees start refusing to handle anything that they consider "haram". So a cashier won't deal with a customer who is buying beer or pork, for example. Everything is well packaged, so the Muslim never has to touch the beer or pork, but just has to pass the packages over the price scanner. She nonetheless refuses, and claims religious discrimination if the employer disciplines her. The Muslim knew before she applied for the job that the store sold alcohol and pork, but she applied for the job anyway and then began causing problems. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #12 (permalink) Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:59 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| What would you think of this situation? Muslims immigrate to a non-Muslim country and attend university there. Then they demand that the university -- where they are an immigrant minority -- change the whole university's class schedule around their prayer times, and that the university use taxpayer money to build foot baths for them. |
It is wrong.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Or this situation: Muslims immigrate to a non-Muslim country and many of them get jobs in one city driving taxis. After there are enough of these Muslim taxi drivers, it becomes almost impossible for a blind person to get a taxi ride, because the Muslim drivers won't pick up blind people guided by leader dogs. (These are clean, well-behaved dogs that are trained to serve as the blind person's "eyes".) |
It is wrong.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Or this situation: Muslims immigrate to a country and apply to work in big supermarkets (or "hypermarkets", as the French would call them). The local employer hires them, but then the new Muslim employees start refusing to handle anything that they consider "haram". So a cashier won't deal with a customer who is buying beer or pork, for example. Everything is well packaged, so the Muslim never has to touch the beer or pork, but just has to pass the packages over the price scanner. She nonetheless refuses, and claims religious discrimination if the employer disciplines her. The Muslim knew before she applied for the job that the store sold alcohol and pork, but she applied for the job anyway and then began causing problems. |
It is wrong.
: o) |
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Happytofita
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 684
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| #13 (permalink) Sat Jun 20, 2009 13:04 pm 10 terms not to use with Muslims |
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| These types of situations are common in my country. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| My niece's talent. | Something worth listening to, for all of us. |
