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implied pronoun "which, that"



 
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implied pronoun "which, that" #1 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:39 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Please read the following SAT Question, and explain why "D" is a better choice than others.

Final exams were incredibly comprehensive, and went on for two weeks, which length made it seem as if they would never end.

A) comprehensive, and went on for two weeks, which length made
b) comprehensive and since they went on for two weeks, that made
C) comprehensive and, since they went on for two weeks, to make
D) comprehensive and went on for two weeks, which made
E) comprehensive and, by going on for two weeks, it made

To me, this question asks students to identify 3 things: "faulty relative pronoun," "implied and ambiguous pronouns," and "comma usage."

(A) is wrong because it uses "which" intead of "whose."
(B) is wrong because it should have "a comma" after "comprensive" so that there is clear distinction between two independent clauses. In addition, the sentence has an implied pronoun "that," yet "that" clearly refers to "going on for two weeks."
(C) does not make sense
(D) is better because it well connects two verbs "were... and went ..."
(E) is wrong because it has a faulty pronoun "it" which has no antecedent.

Do you think my understanding is correct?

Would you say "which" in choice D has a clear antecedent (being comprehensive and going on too long)? and same question goes to "that" in choice B.

Is the pronoun "it" in "...it seem as if they would never end." an expletive?

Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.
thank you.
Ecoke0005
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implied pronoun "which, that" #2 (permalink) Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:47 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hi,
About A & C,I agree with you.
About B,I think it can be written in 2 ways:
since they went on for two weeks,it made it seem as if .....
since they went on for two weeks,it seemed as if .....
About E,it will be correct if it is written like this:
...comprehensive,and it made it seem it would never end by their going on for two weeks.
But I'm not sure.I wish someone could assure you and me about this matter!
Morteza
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implied pronoun "which, that" #3 (permalink) Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:38 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

" I wish someone could assure you and me about this matter!"

Absolutely correct Morteza. I wish you a pleasant day.

Bill.
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implied pronoun "which, that" #4 (permalink) Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:20 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hi Dear Bill,
Me too!I wish a nice day for you.
Many thanks,
Morteza
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implied pronoun "which, that" #5 (permalink) Sun Jun 21, 2009 15:56 pm   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

thanks for your reply, Morteza.
Yet,still trying to figure out the problem.
Ecoke0005
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implied pronoun "which, that" #6 (permalink) Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:32 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hello Ecoke0005,

I would agree that option D is the best choice.
Quote:
Would you say "which" in choice D has a clear antecedent (being comprehensive and going on too long)?
That's the general idea. "Which" refers to more than just a single word. The word "which" introduces a nonrestrictive relative clause, and in this case, it is also a sentential clause.

Guide to Grammar and Writing wrote:
Some relative clauses will refer to more than a single word in the preceding text; they can modify an entire clause or even a series of clauses.

- Charlie didn't get the job in administration, which really surprised his friends.
- Charlie didn't get the job in administration, and he didn't even apply for the Dean's position, which really surprised his friends.

A relative clause that refers to or modifies entire clauses in this manner is called a sentential clause.
source

Quote:
and same question goes to "that" in choice B.

Quote:
In addition, the sentence has an implied pronoun "that," yet "that" clearly refers to "going on for two weeks."
I don't agree. I'd say the word "that" in option B would have to refer back to the first clause -- i.e. "that" = the fact that final exams were incredibly comprehensive. If you break the sentence into two sentences, maybe you will see that more easily:

Final exams were incredibly comprehensive. Since they went on for two weeks, that made it seem as if they would never end.

Compare that to this pair of sentences:
Jane told me that Bob had just asked Susan to marry him. Since Bob is my husband, that (news) came as quite a shock.

("that" = the news contained in the first sentence)

In my example, the fact that "Bob is my husband" is not what shocked me. What shocked me was the news I received from Jane.

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Sentential clause #7 (permalink) Mon Jun 22, 2009 17:03 pm   Sentential clause
 

Hi Esl Expert,
I wonder whether "sentential clause" is "noun clause" or not.
I mean they are almost alike?!
Many thanks,
Morteza
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implied pronoun "which, that" #8 (permalink) Mon Jun 22, 2009 19:44 pm   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hello Morteza,

The "sentential clause" mentioned above is a nonrestrictive relative clause. Because it refers to or modifies another (entire) clause, a sentential clause is also considered to be an adverbial relative clause. If you remove a nonrestrictive relative clause from a sentence, you will be left with a sentence that is still grammatically complete.

A noun clause (nominal clause), on the other hand, can function as the subject or object in a sentence. For example, a noun clause is the subject of each of the following sentences:

- That he doesn't know much about American English is quite obvious.
- What he did is unforgivable.

If you remove the noun clauses from those, you will be left with incomplete sentences (i.e. fragments).

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implied pronoun "which, that" #9 (permalink) Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:37 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hi Esl Expert,
I really thank you for your kind and prompt response.
However,I don't agree with you on option B.I think "that" refers back to "they went on for 2 weeks"!
As you know Pronouns refer back to their nearest antecedent.In addition,what made it seem as if .....?
The duration of final exams or being comprehensive of final exams?
By the way, you mean B is correct,while it is considered as a wrong answer.
I look forward to your answer.
Morteza
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implied pronoun "which, that" #10 (permalink) Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:39 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

Hello Morteza,

You are apparently viewing the word "that" as a relative pronoun in option B, but I don't see it as a relative pronoun at all. Here are the main reasons:

.
1. A nonrestrictive relative clause is typically introduced by the word "which".

2. Sentential relative clauses are nonrestrictive, not restrictive.

3. A nonrestrictive relative clause is typically separated from the thing it modifies by a comma, but a restrictive relative clause is not. Option B contains a comma after the word "weeks". Thus the word "that" does not introduce a restrictive relative clause, and the word "that" is not being used as a relative pronoun.

4. A nonrestrictive relative clause contains "extra information". That means it is not essential to the sentence. If you remove it, the sentence will still be grammatically complete.

5. Option B creates a subordinate clause in the sentence, introduced by the word "since". Subordinate clauses cannot stand alone as grammatically complete sentences. Thus, "Since they went on for two weeks" is not a grammatically complete sentence. It must be accompanied by an independent clause. Relative clauses are also subordinate clauses. Since you need an independent clause after the since-clause, "that made it seem as if they would never end" is not a relative clause.

In other words, this would not be a complete sentence:
- Final exams were incredibly comprehensive and since they went on for two weeks.

Therefore, "that made it seem as if they would never end" can only be an independent clause. It is not a relative clause.

6. The word "that" is not used exclusively to introduce a relative clause. There are many other ways to use the word "that". One of the other ways to use the word "that" is as a demonstrative pronoun. The word "that" is frequently used to refer to things mentioned previously in a different sentence, or to refer to a previously mentioned idea (e.g. a previous sentence or sentences).

7. The example I gave in my previous post (about Jane's news) is a normal, grammatically correct way to use the word "that". The word "that" is not a relative pronoun in my example, and it does not introduce a relative clause. My example followed the same pattern that option B uses.


In my opinion, option B's wording seems to be trying to use "that" to refer to "went on for two weeks"; however, for the reasons I mentioned above, that is not the way to do it. Though you may understand what the person is trying to say, option B is definitely not the best choice.

Morteza wrote:
As you know Pronouns refer back to their nearest antecedent.
Are you referring to all pronouns in general? Or did you mean to say "relative pronouns"?

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implied pronoun "which, that" #11 (permalink) Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:00 am   implied pronoun "which, that"
 

many thanks to both ESL Expert and Morteza.
I learned a lot.

I think "sentential clause" explanation is pretty clear to me.

thank you very very much.
Ecoke0005
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Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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