| Difference between "someone" and "somebody" | 'Go ahead, be gone with it.' |
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#1 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 0:30 am Help with articles needed: Are degradation, speed, rehabilitation uncountable? |
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Dear all,
I have been taught that uncountable nouns can be/are used with an indefinite article if preceeded by an adjective (e.g. a carbonated water, which sounds rather strange to me). However, I have often come across such word combinations with no article. Therefore, I'd like to read other opinions here as well. I am particularly interested in the technical style. For example, I assume that degradation, speed, rehabilitation are uncountable. But what if we say higher degradation/speed or more effective rehabilitation.
Another related question. Let's look at the sentence "to identify the cause, we need to determine relation between A and B". Now, the word relation, according to Oxford's Advanced Learner's Dictionary, is uncountable in this technical/mathematical meaning. Does the sentence then sound natural or should we add at least some to make it sound better (some relation)?
Finally, should we use any article (definite or indefinite depending on the context) in constructions, such as [the/an] acceleration rate F, factor K (or perhaps, the K factor) and the like?
Thank you in advance. |
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Slide New Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 5
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#2 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:15 am Help with articles needed: Are degradation, speed, rehabilitation uncountable? |
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You can use the article with your technical words. You can use 'some' with 'relation'. You can use article with constructions like 'acceleration rate', etc. _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7440 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#3 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:21 am Help with articles needed |
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| Slide wrote: |
Dear all,
"to identify the cause, we need to determine relation between A and B". Now, the word relation, according to Oxford's Advanced Learner's Dictionary, is uncountable in this technical/mathematical meaning. Does the sentence then sound natural or should we add at least some to make it sound better (some relation)?
Thank you in advance. |
Hi Slide,
as long as it is unsure whether they (A and B) share some familial roots at all I´d say "any relation" which is suggested for negation or question, rather than "some".(At least, from what I know) On the other hand if they share their roots I´m not sure if it was useful or natural to distinguish it or them.
Just my humble opinion.
Michael |
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Fan Of Arabian Horses I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 1007 Location: next to Dortmund , Europe
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#4 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:05 am Thanks |
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Thank you both for your inputs. Mister Micawber, do you mean that one can, but may just as well not use them, i.e. there's no such rule and it's a matter of personal choice? Doesn't a carbonated water strike you as odd? |
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Slide New Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 5
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#5 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:34 am Help with articles needed: Are degradation, speed, rehabilitation uncountable? |
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Hi Slide,
Regardless of whether the noun is countable or uncountable (and of course I could have said 'whether a noun is ...) the use of the definite article is precisely what it says, it defines and in the case of the indefinite article, it generalises. We can say: Many people experience fear when they climb a mountain. We can then go on to say: I have experienced a fear like that or: The fear is said to have come from some experience in earlier life.
I've written some material on articles for the site, which may or may not be of interest.
http://www.english-test.net/lessons/57/index.html
This continues at (2) (3) and (4)
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Indirect Speech |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 9210 Location: UK
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#6 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:15 pm The + of |
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Thanks for your comments and the link, Alan. I believe there is no need to post a new thread when asking a related question. So here we go. According to the famous work of Michael Swan, Practical English Usage, we must use the definite article in such a structure as "the x of y", even if the meaning of x is not definite. I tend to think this is not an absolute rule, though. And the question is: would you rather use the definite or indefinite article in "this lead to a/the slower degradation of quality"? |
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Slide New Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 5
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#7 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:47 pm Help with articles needed: Are degradation, speed, rehabilitation uncountable? |
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| Quote: |
Mister Micawber, do you mean that one can, but may just as well not use them, i.e. there's no such rule and it's a matter of personal choice? Doesn't a carbonated water strike you as odd? |
I mean much as Alan says– that it calls for an article pretty much in the same way that any noun does. 'A carbonated water' is not odd if I am asked to choose any one from a range of brands, for instance.
While leaving room for Alan's comments, I'll just mention that I have met that fiat of Swan's before (though he does not generally deal in fiats), and it is one I disagree with. 'This leads to a/the slower degradation of quality': either works nicely. The choice depends on how the writer is thinking– as a specific concept in his mind or as a new idea, for instance. _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7440 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#8 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 13:37 pm Further analysis |
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| Another tricky question in the meantime. Let's consider the word combination further analysis, please. Analysis itself is known to be uncountable, right? Then following the standard rule of "a late breakfast" ( see Article (4) at http://www.english-test.net/lessons/57/index.html ), we should use the indefinite article since further and late are equal here in terms of both syntax and morphology. However, if we google "for further analysis" exactly, we come up with over a million results, including trustful sources. I would regard this as a set phrase but for other similar expressions, e.g. "in detailed analysis" with over twenty-two thousand hits. Do you think these are all set phrases? |
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Slide New Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 5
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#9 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 13:44 pm Help with articles needed: Are degradation, speed, rehabilitation uncountable? |
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No. I get these:
3,200,000 for "further analysis". 4,140,000 for "a further analysis" 1,180,000 for "the further analysis". _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7440 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#10 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 15:59 pm for included in quotes |
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| Sorry, I meant searching "for further analysis", i.e. with for within the quotes. Besides, "a further analysis" includes "further analysis". |
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Slide New Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 5
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| Difference between "someone" and "somebody" | 'Go ahead, be gone with it.' |