|
|
 #2 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 17:17 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| "Did you had" is grammatically incorrect. The proper way is the former. |
|
 SkiIucK
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 850
|
|
| #3 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 17:19 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
Hi Avance70,
"Did you have to go through the tunnel?" is correct.
Your other version of the sentence (combining did and had) is simply wrong.
You would also need to use did and have in the negative version of your sentence:
- You did not have to go through the tunnel.
__________________________
"It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others--and less trouble." ~ Mark Twain |
|
Esl_Expert
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 969
Location: USA
|
 |
| #4 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 18:07 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
Hm... still I don't like it. I feel that the sentence:
"Did you have to go through the tunnel?"
--implies (albeit slightly) that the one asking the question doesn't know was it through the tunnel or not.
Is there any other (clearer) way to ask the question? For example:
"Was it really neccesary to go through the tunnel?" --implying there might have been a better route to take, or something like that.
"I had to go through the tunnel! There was no other choice..." |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
| #5 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 18:16 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
Maybe my example is bad, let's try another one:
"Water from the oasis seemed dirty."
"Did you have to drink it?"
"Yes I had! I couldn't find any for hours."
See, I don't like this "have"... it just sounds strange, but:
"Water from the oasis seemed dirty."
"You had to drink it?"
"Yes I had! I couldn't find any for hours." |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
| #6 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 18:43 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
Avance70, I could suggest a variant for a present-time situation.
- The water here isn't good. Must you really drink it? (=Is that what you want? I don't think you should do it.) |
|
Pokemon
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 48
|
|
| #7 (permalink) Fri Sep 25, 2009 19:32 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Avance70 wrote: |
Hm... still I don't like it. I feel that the sentence:
"Did you have to go through the tunnel?"
--implies (albeit slightly) that the one asking the question doesn't know was it through the tunnel or not. |
Hi Avance,
That question ("Did you have to go through the tunnel?") can be used to mean that, and without any other context, that would probably be the default interpretation. However, if it is already clear in the broader context that the person asking the question already knows that you went through the tunnel, then obviously the meaning you're after would be the likely interpretation instead. Sentences normally do not occur in a vacuum. Context always plays a role.
In addition, it would only be necessary to add extra stress to the words "have to" to get the meaning you're after (spoken English). And if you add the word "really" to the sentence, that will also make it clear that the person already knows (or at least assumes) that you went through the tunnel:
"Did you really have to go through the tunnel?"
Intonation/stress in the sentence (spoken English) will likely vary depending on the reason for the question (incredulity, criticism, etc.). And, yes, there are any number of other ways to ask the question. For the meaning you're after, it might be best to begin the sentence with "why" rather than simply with "did". For example:
"Why on earth did you have to use the tunnel? Are you nuts?"
:lol:
___________________________________
“The first step towards philosophy is incredulity.” ~ Denis Diderot |
|
Esl_Expert
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 969
Location: USA
|
|
| #8 (permalink) Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:29 am Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Avance70 wrote: |
...
See, I don't like this "have"... it just sounds strange ... |
Other ways to ask such a question have been suggested already. However, this "have" is not strange at all, it is perfectly normal. Of course you don't have to use it, but why on earth not? |
|
Cerberus™
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 1342
|
|
| #9 (permalink) Wed Sep 30, 2009 20:47 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Cerberus™ wrote: |
| However, this "have" is not strange at all, it is perfectly normal. Of course you don't have to use it, but why on earth not? |
I think that I don't like this have+verb combination.
For example, this:
A: "I finished the repairs already."
B: "Did you have to?"
...sounds good to me, but:
A: "I finished the repairs already."
B: "Did you have to finish the repairs?"
...sounds strange. I can't really explain why exactly, but the 2nd example just feels like the question -- although in context -- enforces that the one asking it doesn't know if the person A even "finished it". Moreso, it may even appear like the person B didn't hear what A had said. For example, after what B said, A could respond:
A: "I just told you I did!"
B: "Ah, sorry. I wasn't listening."
The next example sounds closer to how I would say it, but I don't know if it's a correct way to ask a question:
A: "I finished the repairs already."
B: "You had to finish the repairs?"
...in this example, I find it all a bit clearer. Person B actually registered what A had said, and is asking what the reasoning behind it might be. |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
| #10 (permalink) Wed Sep 30, 2009 21:49 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree with you. If I ask "did you have to kill her?", I am only asking whether or not there was an obligation, not at all whether you did it or not. I would not ask it if I didn't know that you actually killed her; my asking this implies that I already know you did. But that is not what the question is about.
"You had to finish the repairs?" is equivalent to "did you have to finish the repairs?"; the only difference is that the first question expects a positive answer, whereas the second one is neutral. There is no other difference. "Did you have to go" is simply the same as "you have to go", except that the latter is a statement, and the former a question with inversion. |
|
Cerberus™
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 1342
|
|
| #11 (permalink) Thu Oct 01, 2009 16:19 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Cerberus™ wrote: |
| I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree with you. If I ask "did you have to kill her?", I am only asking whether or not there was an obligation, not at all whether you did it or not. I would not ask it if I didn't know that you actually killed her; my asking this implies that I already know you did. But that is not what the question is about. |
I understand, but it will take some time to get used to :)
The thing that is confusing me is, if I use your example and I want to ask if someone actually had to kill someone, I would ask exactly the same question:
"Did you have to kill her?"
...or am I wrong? |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
| #12 (permalink) Thu Oct 01, 2009 17:30 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Avance70 wrote: |
| Cerberus™ wrote: |
| I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree with you. If I ask "did you have to kill her?", I am only asking whether or not there was an obligation, not at all whether you did it or not. I would not ask it if I didn't know that you actually killed her; my asking this implies that I already know you did. But that is not what the question is about. |
I understand, but it will take some time to get used to :)
The thing that is confusing me is, if I use your example and I want to ask if someone actually had to kill someone, I would ask exactly the same question:
"Did you have to kill her?"
...or am I wrong? |
The "same question" as in which other situation? I don't understand. This is as far as I know the only reason why I would ask such a question: I want to know whether or not you had no choice but to kill her. (Obligation taken in a wide sense.) |
|
Cerberus™
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 1342
|
|
| #13 (permalink) Thu Oct 01, 2009 20:54 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Cerberus™ wrote: |
| Avance70 wrote: |
| Cerberus™ wrote: |
| I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree with you. If I ask "did you have to kill her?", I am only asking whether or not there was an obligation, not at all whether you did it or not. I would not ask it if I didn't know that you actually killed her; my asking this implies that I already know you did. But that is not what the question is about. |
I understand, but it will take some time to get used to :)
The thing that is confusing me is, if I use your example and I want to ask if someone actually had to kill someone, I would ask exactly the same question:
"Did you have to kill her?"
...or am I wrong? |
The "same question" as in which other situation? I don't understand. This is as far as I know the only reason why I would ask such a question: I want to know whether or not you had no choice but to kill her. (Obligation taken in a wide sense.) |
Situation 1 (person B is asking was she killed or not):
A: "I stole the shipment, but not without a fight."
B: "Did you have to kill her?"
A: "No. She wasn't a threat."
Situation 2 (person B knows that she is killed and is asking was it neccesary):
A: "Before I exited the house, I shot her in the head."
B: "Did you have to kill her?"
A: "Yes. I didn't want any witnesses." |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
| #14 (permalink) Thu Oct 01, 2009 23:35 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
| Avance70 wrote: |
Situation 1 (person B is asking was she killed or not):
A: "I stole the shipment, but not without a fight."
B: "Did you have to kill her?"
A: "No. She wasn't a threat." |
Ah, I see what you mean.
Strictly speaking, B is not asking whether she was killed; he is only asking whether it was necessary to kill her, just as in the second situation, below.
However, context supplies a lot of information here. When you ask whether it was necessary that B kill someone, it is implied that B in fact killed her if he acknowledges that he needed to do so; otherwise the question would be moot, wouldn't be relevant to the situation. Person B assumes it is impossible that A killed her if it wasn't necessary to do so. He also assumes it is impossible that A didn't kill her if it was necessary.
Context may twist the meaning of anything; take irony, for example, which is impossible without contextual information. Context can cause a statement to mean the opposite of what it normally means.
| Quote: |
Situation 2 (person B knows that she is killed and is asking was it neccesary):
A: "Before I exited the house, I shot her in the head."
B: "Did you have to kill her?"
A: "Yes. I didn't want any witnesses." |
Here person B assumes it is quite possible that A killed her even though it wasn't necessary. As opposed to the first situation, he assumes that A killed her, since A said so in the previous line. That is why the question is interpreted differently; this difference does not lie in the question itself, but in its context. |
|
Cerberus™
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 1342
|
|
| #15 (permalink) Fri Oct 02, 2009 16:29 pm Question: I had to do it -- did I...? |
|
|
I think I understand... so the more appropriate question for situation 1 would simply be:
"Did you kill her?" |
|
Avance70
I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| Use simple past instead of present perfect or even past perfect when I'm talking | Anyway vs. Anyways |
