maximal vs. maximum

[Sandsoppa]

Dear Experts,

What is the difference between maximal and maximum, minimal and minimum? The all can be used as adjectives, but when?

Thanks,

sand

[Erik]

I can think of no occasion that you would normally use the word "maximal." Its use is confined to engineers, scientists, and mathematicians

[Sandsoppa]

I am sorry for your answers. It seems you excluded me from using the words because you believe I am neither of the professionals?! OK, it does not matter who I am, you still have not yet answered my question: what is the difference?

[Erik]

I have answered your question: The difference is "Maximal" is a word that you will never encounter in a normal conversation, newspaper, radio, movie, song lyric, TV program, novel, etc. If you have a specific technical career, there are probably 100s of words involved in it that nobody here would be qualified to define. I am not trying to keep it a secret.

[Sandsoppa]

Have you heard of this:
"To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge." - Confucius

Your answer tells me that you do not know. Period.

[Cerberus™]

[Esl_Expert]

Hello Sandsoppa,

I agree with what Erik and Cerberus have posted.

[Sandsoppa]

Thanks Esl_ Expert. This is what exactly what I want to hear.
I posted the question because I had not only once but many times to have difficulties to understand the difference of the two words. I had consulted my colleagues and friends who are native English speakers. The answers were different. Unfortunately, the answer by Erik was: "no occasion that you would normally use the word "maximal". Its use is confined to engineers, scientists, and mathematicians." OK, does it mean that if I am not either of the professionals, why do I bother? That is what I read by words. I cannot see how these answers are CLEAR and COMPLETE and HELPFUL as Cerberus mentioned. Of course, no one here is obligated to answer the question correctly, a forum for discussion. But if to post, please do provide an answer right or wrong as what Esl_ Expert did. It is funny and unfortunate that you think I am taking everything personal.

[Cerberus™]

[Sandsoppa]

I will not reason with you whether it is personal or not because this is not what I came for.
But, I do not agree with you that Erik's answer is complete by saying "The difference is "Maximal" is a word that you will never encounter in a normal conversation, newspaper, radio, movie, song lyric, TV program, novel, etc.", unless he never use it in the occasions he mentioned. Interestingly, while I I Google the same words, there are many places that talk about the differences. Obviously these words are not technical only. They are "normally" being used.
Interestingly, I found a similar question posted two months ago by someone at
http://www.englishforums.com/English/MaximalVsMaximum/kwjpq/post.htm
This question was "what's the difference between maximal and maximum?" and it was answered by:
Mister Micawber +Quick Reply 878007 Fri, 28 Aug 09 02:55 PM
Quote: Nothing really. The noun is often used as an adjective, even though the adjective is available.
This Mister Micawber has probably the maximal/maximum (here again) posts here and most respected person, likely a manager of this website. I have no idea if this is the same person. But one thing is certain, there are not only one answer for this question. What I learned from previous posts that there are still ongoing controversies and debating in English grammar, vocabularies, etc. It reminds me another saying:
There are skies outside the sky; there are knowledge beyond the knowledge.

[Erik]

You should go to Google Books and do a search: http://books.google.com/books?q=maximal&btnG=Search+Books
and see what kinds of books use this word, go several screens down.
All I can say is my experience: I'm 50 years old, have a college degree, was raised by both parents with advanced degrees, worked on a university campus for 10 years, etc. and have never heard that word spoken out loud, just have read it. And only in technical works. Its way, way, way down on the list of words that someone needs to function in the English language. And for reading purposes, the meaning is fairly obvious. I doubt most Americans have heard it spoken. That is what I was attempting to say to the original poster. Sorry if it sounded snobby.

[Cerberus™]

What MrMicawber said in that post was just that there is little difference in meaning; he did not deny that maximal is a highly technical term. But it was a good idea to look around for other places where this matter has been discussed.

Googling "maximal", I was hard-pressed to find hits that were none of the following:
1.) Used in specific scientific discourse, such as engineering, mathematics, philosophy, and medicine.
2.) Used in pseudo-science by those who wish to impress others by difficult, i.e. out-of-proper-context, words.
2.) Used as a fictitious name in some television series or cartoon.
3.) Used as a name by wannabe trendy magazines and such.

Googling "maximal height" or "maximal length", I only got highly scientific results, even though these are nouns that might be expected to commonly accompany them.

[Infin1ty]

I'm under the impression that you take everything personal too. Besides, I think your posts make it perfectly clear that you don't even know the concept of basic respect.
_________________
Please feel free to correct me if you find any mistakes in my posts.

[Sandsoppa]

Thank you Erik for sharing your personal experience and your humbleness. I am in the same generation and older than you are. My point is: even if the words are technical terms it does not mean there is no need to know the difference. In fact, I am writing technical articles, I do want to know the difference. My frustration is that I was assumed not to use the words. If my previous posts made you uncomfortable, sorry.

Dear Infin1ty, you are welcome to join in. But I wish you provide some useful comments on how to use the words like most of the others did in the last few posts that I highly appreciate.

sand

[Topaze]

The difference is reasonably well outlined in most good dictionaries.

According to both the Oxford ALD and Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, the word "maximal" is technical, and the Cambridge ALD indicates that it's specialized, which, in this case, is another word for "technical". Merriam-Webster's Dictionary is surprisingly reticent. Otherwise, these two words convey exactly the same meaning.

This is not the case with the words "minimal" and "minimum", however. As Esl_Expert wrote above, the word "minimal" can generally mean "very small in amount", not necessarily "the smallest amount". The Cambridge ALD lists only the former meaning, thus making these words sound rather different. The Oxford ALD and LDCE, however, provide both meanings, and Merriam-Webster's Dictionary adds that it can also mean "barely adequate", as in "minimal standards of living".