Usage of determiners

[Detlef]

In Practical English Usage of Michael Swan I found this about certain determiners

None of the cures really works (formal British)
None of the cures really work (informal British; American)
Neither of my brothers has/ have been outside England.
Has/Have either of them been seen recently?

I heard three similar constructions on tele last night

None of them cares/ care.
None of you minds/ mind.
None of us minds/ mind.

Now, I wonder what the short questions/ answers are in connection to these sentences with those determiners. Here's what I thought, but am I correct?

None of the cures really works, do they? since you can't say: 'does they?
None of the cures really work, do they? since you can't say: 'does they?'
Neither of my brothers has/have been outside England, have they? since you can't say: 'has they?'
Has/have either of them been seen recently? No, they haven't. since you can't say: No, they hasn't.

None of them cares/ care, do they? since you can't say:'does they?'
None of you minds/ mind, do you? since you can't say: 'does you?'
None of us minds/ mind, do we? since you can't say: 'does we?'

Please Mister Micawber or Alan help me. It's an emergency. Thanks.

Detlef
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The Importance Of Being Earnest - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) I just love him!

[Detlef]

Hi Torsten,

Could you help me with my problem about deteminers? I should like to have a confirmation about whether I have logically or illogically interpreted this topic.

It's absolutely important to me.

Thanks
Detlef (formerly Marc)
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The Importance Of Being Earnest - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) I just love him!

[Torsten]

Hi Detlef/Marc,

Can you please be more specific and read this first: What is a meaningful message title and why is it important?

Many thanks,
Torsten

TOEIC listening, photographs: A picnic

[Detlef]

It is meaningful, because it concerns English grammar. My message is on this forum, called determiners, heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp, it's an emergeny. Why is it even more important, because one my students asked me the same questions. Now I would like to know how to respond. I'd never heard of this until yesterday
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The Importance Of Being Earnest - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) I just love him!

[Torsten]

You can use the search function on our forum to get these posts: Some, any and determiners

Examples of usage of determiners and quantifiers

TOEIC listening, photographs: A happy couple

[Milanya]

Message deleted by author.
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con·text - The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning.

[Alan]

Hi Detlef/Marc,

You want, you say, some help about determiners and you quote Swan in relation to question tags. I am at a loss to know what your question is.

Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple

[Detlef]

Dear Alan,

My question is. When you take a look at one of the sentences: You can say:

None of you minds or None of you mind. Can add a short answer/ question to these sentences. Example: None of you minds, do you? or do people usually don't add short answers/ questions/ question tags to a sentence like that?
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The Importance Of Being Earnest - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) I just love him!

[Cerberus™]

It is as simple as this: if you choose a singular verb "none ... works", you say "..., does it?" (or "he/she"); if plural "none ... work", you say "..., do they?". The tag verb "to do" is supposed to echo the person and tense of the finite verb in the other sentence. Then again, for some reason the tag questions sound a bit odd with the singular none; perhaps they are best avoided there.

- Neither of my brothers has been outside England, has he? (You can't say "have been" because "neither" implies I have only two brothers: it is short for "neither one has been ... nor has the other", which is necessarily singular.)

- None of them care, do they?
- None of them cares, does he? (This sounds a bit awkward to me; perhaps you should just avoid tag questions with "none" singular. Perhaps you could use "one" instead of "he", but that still doesn't sound like something you would naturally say.)

- None of us mind, do we?
- None of us minds, does he? (Same as above: awkward.)

[Anglo Sax]

Hello Detlef

The answer to your original question is: yes, you are correct in every case, and you have properly interpreted Michael Swan's summary.

The confusion arises because there can be disagreement over what is the subject of the verb. To take one example, in traditional English the subject would be 'none' which is effectively a contraction of 'not one': it is therefore singular. In modern English the whole phrase is often taken as the subject, so in 'none of them', 'them' modifies the first determiner and the plural is used. To some ears it offends, others don't seem to notice.

You can read a related discussion here: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic44474.html#the_team_was_vs_the_team_were

I would respectfully suggest you might be devaluing the meaning of 'emergency' .... :)

[Alan]

Hi Detlef/Marc,

The main point of these question tags is that they are primarily conversational. If you start off with: 'None of you' this means not one of you and so agreement suggests 'minds'. If you then want to 'tag' this, you would say: do you?

Alan
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English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms