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 #2 (permalink) Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:54 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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| If you mean "I start to work" well .... yes, but this means I leave the house rather than actually the time I start work. |
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HamburgEnglish
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| #3 (permalink) Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:41 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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Now I got it! Thanks HamburgEnglish!
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 Aikuzo
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| #4 (permalink) Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:09 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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| Hamburg, I beg to differ: "I start work at 9" is idiomatic, whereas "I start to work at 9" is simply not used. There is no specific reason why it should not be used, but it isn't. |
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Cerberus™
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| #5 (permalink) Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:18 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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Hi Aikuzo,
'I start to work' suggests that you are beginning a particular task and I presume in your sentence you don't want to say that. What you want to say is 'my working day begins at 9'. And then there is the use of 'finish' at the end of the sentence - you can't have 'start to' and then say 'finish' because that would require 'finish to work' and that isn't used. In summary stick to 'start work'.
Alan
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Alan
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| #6 (permalink) Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:54 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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Beg all you wish Cerberus....
Fact is - start to work is not so often used to mean "the start of the working process of a person when decribing the point at which their actual working process starts ..."
As Alan said "I start work at 09:00" is the common form used to mean my action of starting work e.g. when I officially have to clock-in ... and .... this would then be used in a sentence ...
I start work at 09:00 and finish work at 17:00.
It is not in my eyes Idiomatic!
Now as I said ...
| Quote: |
| Fact is that start to work is not so often used to mean "the start of the working process" |
... and I used the term "not so often" because in fact in some context it can be used ....
e.g.
The new heating system will start to work at 09:00 and stop at 15:00.
I kept turning the ignition key, but the car would not start. Suddenly, when I felt I would never get it going, it started to work...
Now in the context or a person, we could also say .....
Although he starts work at 09:00, he is so lazy he does not actually start "to" work until 09:30.
In another context, maybe of someone's working day the terms could be used as follows ...
I normally start to work at 08:00 and arrive at 08:30. I always arrive early so I can have some breakfast in the canteen before I start work at 09:00.
In many of the "start to work" situations, we can use "start working" with exception to the meaning of "starting one's travel to work" ....
e.g.
The new heating system will start working at 09:00 and stop at 15:00.
I kept turning the ignition key, but the car would not start. Suddenly, when I felt I would never get it going, it started working ...
Although he starts work at 09:00, he is so lazy he does not actually start working until 09:30.
Here the "working" will not work!
I normally start to work at 08:00 and arrive at 08:30. I always arrive early so I can have some breakfast in the canteen before I start work at 09:00.
Where I come from we would normally say "start working" but sometimes, "start to work" for the start of a work process, "start work" for the time we must clock-in and sometimes use "start to work" meaning the start of the travel to work.
In context of the travel to; I could also use "leave home" which by some, may be seen as the preferred option ...
However you look at this use, there is cultural/area differences and as I preach in to those in this forum so often; no particluar way can be seen as incorrect for we all speak differently. Incorrect can only be defined as the breaking of grammar rules and not the way in which a language is used!!
Nowadays and with the influence of American English, even the breaking of traditional grammar rules is "by strength of majority in use" becoming allowed and over more time, becoming a rule itelf.
Rob
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HamburgEnglish
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| #7 (permalink) Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:16 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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"I start work at 9" is used by everyone I know, but again, I'm English and working class.
Perhaps it is a class difference.
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Kitosdad
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| #8 (permalink) Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:45 am "I start work at 9 o' clock and finish at 5:30" |
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| HamburgEnglish wrote: |
Beg all you wish Cerberus....
Fact is - start to work is not so often used to mean "the start of the working process of a person when decribing the point at which their actual working process starts ..."
[But that was exactly what we were talking about: "I start work at nine" cannot reasonably be interpreted otherwise.]
As Alan said "I start work at 09:00" is the common form used to mean my action of starting work e.g. when I officially have to clock-in ... and .... this would then be used in a sentence ...
I start work at 09:00 and finish work at 17:00.
It is not in my eyes Idiomatic!
[Idiom just means something that is typical of a language and cannot be explained by rules. Since I cannot think of a rule that forbids using "start to work" in this sense, I consider its being unnatural an idiomatic peculiarity.]
Now as I said ...
| Quote: |
| Fact is that start to work is not so often used to mean "the start of the working process" |
... and I used the term "not so often" because in fact in some context it can be used ....
[You did not use "not so often" in your earlier message.]
e.g.
The new heating system will start to work at 09:00 and stop at 15:00.
I kept turning the ignition key, but the car would not start. Suddenly, when I felt I would never get it going, it started to work...
Now in the context or a person, we could also say .....
Although he starts work at 09:00, he is so lazy he does not actually start "to" work until 09:30.
[This usage does not seem to be impossible, but it sounds rather like a pun of some kind. Moreover, it does not seem to be a probable interpretation of the original example.]
In another context, maybe of someone's working day the terms could be used as follows ...
I normally start to work at 08:00 and arrive at 08:30. I always arrive early so I can have some breakfast in the canteen before I start work at 09:00.
[I may be drunk at the moment, but this sounds like nonsense to me. You would not say this, and if you did it would not signify what you wanted it to. If you asked me, just don't use it.]
In many of the "start to work" situations, we can use "start working" with exception to the meaning of "starting one's travel to work" ....
e.g.
The new heating system will start working at 09:00 and stop at 15:00.
I kept turning the ignition key, but the car would not start. Suddenly, when I felt I would never get it going, it started working ...
Although he starts work at 09:00, he is so lazy he does not actually start working until 09:30.
[Again, a pun. You might use it like this, but we were talking about a simple sentence.]
Here the "working" will not work!
[I fail to understand this paradox.]
I normally start to work at 08:00 and arrive at 08:30. I always arrive early so I can have some breakfast in the canteen before I start work at 09:00.
[Like the example you gave earlier, this sounds like nonsense to me.]
Where I come from we would normally say "start working" but sometimes, "start to work" for the start of a work process, "start work" for the time we must clock-in and sometimes use "start to work" meaning the start of the travel to work.
[The first three I agree with; the last one sounds simply wrong to me, but perhaps someone else can corroborate this. ]
In context of the travel to; I could also use "leave home" which by some, may be seen as the preferred option ...
However you look at this use, there is cultural/area differences and as I preach in to those in this forum so often; no particluar way can be seen as incorrect for we all speak differently. Incorrect can only be defined as the breaking of grammar rules and not the way in which a language is used!!
[There is no fundamental distinction between "grammar" and "the way in which a language is used". If something is never used in a certain way, it is not wrong to call it incorrect. The rules of grammar are just a tool we use to comprehend the otherwise completely unintelligible structure of our language, not something intrinsic to it.]
Nowadays and with the influence of American English, even the breaking of traditional grammar rules is "by strength of majority in use" becoming allowed and over more time, becoming a rule itelf.
[That may happen in time, but certainly not immediately; the appointment of this time is perhaps the most fertile ground for debate among grammarians.
In addition, perhaps you should pay more attention to what Kitosdad said.]
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Cerberus™
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