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 #2 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 17:02 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Hi,
The phrase "That which does not kill us makes us stronger " was actually spoken and written by Friedrich Nietzsche.
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 Geo777
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| #3 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 17:39 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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I think you're correct.
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Wanderer
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| #4 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 18:36 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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That's true GEO777, I'll change that immediately. Bye, bye, vagabond!
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Detlef
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| #5 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 18:42 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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| Wanderer wrote: |
| I think you're correct. |
Who do you think is correct? I or Geo777?
Detlef
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Detlef
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| #6 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 18:47 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Who did you say bye bye to? Of course I mentioned your question and replied to it. My knowledge is not wide enough to comment on such sayings!
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Wanderer
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| #7 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 19:04 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Hi,
It's an intresting question. But how do I know for sure that the second younger brother is older than the first one, if we don't have enough information about it?
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Geo777
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| #8 (permalink) Fri Apr 02, 2010 19:23 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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I think that's why this guy used first and second,... I suggest using the sister after me and the sister after my younger sister..... Well I'm crazy. That's too confusing like a maze.
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Wanderer
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| #9 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 0:43 am Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Hi Detlef
| Quote: |
My first younger brother. (does this mean he was the first born child after me?)
My second younger brother. (does this mean he was the second child born after me and my first younger brother?). |
No.
Neither of those two phrases strike me as particularly idiomatic. Using 'first' and 'second' is not a common way to refer to the comparative ages of your own siblings. A parent might do that (e.g. my first child = my first-born = the oldest of my children), but generally speaking, a sibling would not use words such as 'first' and 'second' that way.
It would make more sense to first establish the fact that all of your brothers are younger than you are, for example, and then to separately compare age/birth order ("my oldest/eldest brother", etc.) I happen to have three younger brothers, so I might tell you something like this:
- I have three younger brothers. The eldest is named Charlie. Ben is the middle brother, and Jeff is the youngest.
I also happen to have have a younger sister. The birth order of my siblings (and me) is this: Me, Charlie, Ben, Jeff, Jane. So, I might then also tell you this:
- I also have a sister. Jane is the youngest in the family.
In this case, even though Jane is the youngest of my siblings, I will still refer to Jeff as "my youngest brother".
| Quote: |
| My youngest brother. (does this mean he was the last child born after me and my first and second younger brother?) |
No, this only refers to the boy who was born last. It says nothing about sisters. (See my last example.)
Now, if my sister (Jane) were older than Jeff, then I might say this:
- Jane is the second youngest (in the family).
| Quote: |
| My eldest sister (she was the one who was born first?) |
This is idiomatic, but it says nothing about whether you are older or younger than this particular sister.
| Quote: |
| My first elder sister ( she was the one who was born after my eldest sister?) |
This is not really a common way to talk about this.
| Quote: |
| My second elder sister ( she was the one who was born after my first elder and eldest sister?) |
This may well confuse people.
If you have more than three sisters, you might refer to them as "my eldest sister", "my second-eldest sister", my youngest sister", "my second-youngest sister", etc. If you have exactly three sisters, you might say "middle sister" for the one between the oldest and youngest of your sisters. However, none of these include information about whether your sisters are older or younger than you are.
If you talk about "my big brother", then you are referring to a brother who is older than you are. Without further context, it suggests that you have only one brother who is older than you are.
If you talk about "my little sister", then you are referring to a younger sister. Without further context, it suggests that you have only one sister who is younger than you are.
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Esl_Expert
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| #10 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:19 am Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Thank you Esl-Expert!!! It's very difficult, but now I understand.
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Detlef
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:17 am Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Hi Esl_Expert,
That's an excellent information. Thanks for that.
Please check whether I have understood it correctly or not.
x:Brother
y:Sister
Birth order Members
1 x1
2 x2
3 I
4 y1
5 y2
My eldest brother------------------x1
My first-eldest brother-------------x1
My second-eldest brother----------x2
My youngest sister-----------------y2
My second-youngest sister---------y2
My first-youngest sister------------y1
My big brothers--------------------x1 and x2
My little sisters---------------------y1 and y2
I have two younger sisters. The eldest is named y1. And y2 is the youngest.
I have two elder brothers. The eldest is named x1. And x2 is the youngest.
Thanks to Detlef for bringing this important question. |
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David30
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| #12 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:03 am Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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| Esl_Expert wrote: |
Hi Detlef
| Quote: |
My first younger brother. (does this mean he was the first born child after me?)
My second younger brother. (does this mean he was the second child born after me and my first younger brother?). |
No.
Neither of those two phrases strike me as particularly idiomatic. Using 'first' and 'second' is not a common way to refer to the comparative ages of your own siblings. A parent might do that (e.g. my first child = my first-born = the oldest of my children), but generally speaking, a sibling would not use words such as 'first' and 'second' that way.
It would make more sense to first establish the fact that all of your brothers are younger than you are, for example, and then to separately compare age/birth order ("my oldest/eldest brother", etc.) I happen to have three younger brothers, so I might tell you something like this:
- I have three younger brothers. The eldest is named Charlie. Ben is the middle brother, and Jeff is the youngest.
I also happen to have have a younger sister. The birth order of my siblings (and me) is this: Me, Charlie, Ben, Jeff, Jane. So, I might then also tell you this:
- I also have a sister. Jane is the youngest in the family.
In this case, even though Jane is the youngest of my siblings, I will still refer to Jeff as "my youngest brother".
| Quote: |
| My youngest brother. (does this mean he was the last child born after me and my first and second younger brother?) |
No, this only refers to the boy who was born last. It says nothing about sisters. (See my last example.)
Now, if my sister (Jane) were older than Jeff, then I might say this:
- Jane is the second youngest (in the family).
| Quote: |
| My eldest sister (she was the one who was born first?) |
This is idiomatic, but it says nothing about whether you are older or younger than this particular sister.
| Quote: |
| My first elder sister ( she was the one who was born after my eldest sister?) |
This is not really a common way to talk about this.
| Quote: |
| My second elder sister ( she was the one who was born after my first elder and eldest sister?) |
This may well confuse people.
If you have more than three sisters, you might refer to them as "my eldest sister", "my second-eldest sister", my youngest sister", "my second-youngest sister", etc. If you have exactly three sisters, you might say "middle sister" for the one between the oldest and youngest of your sisters. However, none of these include information about whether your sisters are older or younger than you are.
If you talk about "my big brother", then you are referring to a brother who is older than you are. Without further context, it suggests that you have only one brother who is older than you are.
If you talk about "my little sister", then you are referring to a younger sister. Without further context, it suggests that you have only one sister who is younger than you are.
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"Big Brother is watching you." ~ George Orwell |
Thank you very much for your detailed answer. It was rather comlicated question for me.
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Geo777
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| #13 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:08 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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Hi David
| Quote: |
| My eldest brother------------------x1 |
This is OK. However, it does not tell anyone whether or not this brother is older or younger than you are. This only compares the birth order of your brothers (i.e. you are not included in this comparison). It does not compare your age with the age of your brothers.
| Quote: |
| My first-eldest brother-------------x1 |
No, we say 'my eldest/oldest brother'.
| Quote: |
| My second-eldest brother----------x2 |
This is idiomatic. It tells the listener that you have more than one brother, and that this particular brother was born after the first-born brother. However, it is not clear whether or not your 'second-eldest brother' is older or younger than you are.
| Quote: |
| My youngest sister-----------------y2 |
OK
| Quote: |
| My second-youngest sister---------y2 |
This is idiomatic, however it does not mean the same thing as 'my youngest sister'. This would refer to the sister who was born before the youngest sister.
| Quote: |
| My first-youngest sister------------y1 |
No, this is not idiomatic. The youngest is simply the youngest.
| Quote: |
My big brothers--------------------x1 and x2
My little sisters---------------------y1 and y2 |
Yes
| Quote: |
| I have two younger sisters. The eldest is named y1. And y2 is the youngest. |
This would be commonly used. However, with this wording, it would be grammatically correct to say this:
I have two younger sisters. The elder one is named y1. And y2 is the younger one.
If you omitted the first sentence ("I have two younger sisters") and then simply said "My elder sister is named Carol", then that would be interpreted to mean that Carol is older than you are.
On the other hand, if you changed the first sentence to "I have two sisters" and then said "The elder sister is named Carol", then there is no suggestion whatsoever of whether Carol is older or younger than you are.
| Quote: |
| I have two elder brothers. The eldest is named x1. And x2 is the youngest. |
This would be common idiomatic usage. However, because you are comparing the ages of exactly two brothers, it would be grammatical to say "The elder/older (of my two brothers) is x1 and the younger (of my two brothers) is x2."
As was the case with the sentences about sisters, however, if you omit the first sentence ("I have two elder brothers."), then the listener will not know whether you are older or younger than your brothers.
Like the sentences about sisters, the phrase "my elder brother" refers to a brother who is older than you are.
I hope this has helped. :-)
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Esl_Expert
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| #14 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 13:25 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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| Thanks Esl_Expert |
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David30
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| #15 (permalink) Sat Apr 03, 2010 13:34 pm Family relations/ Heeeelllllp ESl_Expert |
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| David30 wrote: |
| That's an excellent information. |
Hi David, please note that in English the word 'information' is uncountable so you can't say 'an information' but you can say 'some information'.
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