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Torsten
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 #3 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 17:54 pm Pen down chicken die |
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I've never heard it either. What's the source/context?
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Beeesneees
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Torsten
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| #5 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 18:10 pm Pen down chicken die |
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| Not intentionally. I've heard many native speakers in Vietnam say that. Maybe they're just kidding. But really I don't know what it means. |
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Blue_Snow
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| #6 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 18:52 pm Pen down chicken die |
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Here's my theory (I'm quite pleased with it - the facts are correct even if it isn't the origin of the phrase):
Pen Down is a pnemonic for PD.
PD is an acronym for Pullorum Disease
Pullorum Disease (PD) is commonly called Chicken Salmonellosis, and is a septicaemic disease that primarily affects chickens and turkeys. If they contract it they will die.
It is particular prevalent in the Americas, Africa and part of Asia, apparently, which would explain the Vietnamese connection.
Therefore:
Pen Down = PD = Pullorum Disease, which results in a dead chicken!
Don't applaud - just throw cash my way! ;)
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Beeesneees
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| #7 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 19:25 pm Pen down chicken die |
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| Oh my God. I've never heard a funnier explanation to such a funny expression like this. After consulting my teacher, I got the idea that it means What's done can't be undone. The reason why we have such an expression is that native speakers, after living in Vietnam and learning Vietnamese for a long time found out an idiom which when translated into English word by word would be Pen down chicken die. The origin is The Vietnamese loved their chickens so much in the past and if there's a dying chicken, that sounds like a catastrophe. Writers in Vietnam had very special ways of implying things. Each word has at least two meanings. Some famous writers even agonised a week over a decision to use a word for their poem because they think if they use words spontaneously, it will cause something like Pen(writes)down, chicken(will)die. If you love Vietnamese literature, then I suggest you should read Kieu of Nguyen Du and Chinh Phu Ngam of Thanh Quan Village's Madam. |
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Blue_Snow
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| #8 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 20:00 pm Pen down chicken die |
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I suspected it wasn't the origin, but I'm still pleased with my theory. It fits!
What I don't understand so much is that you asked what it meant in the first place, insisted you didn't know, and have now come out with a full explanation.
Why did you feel the need to ask, if you had a first hand source of information?
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Beeesneees
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| #9 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 21:39 pm Pen down chicken die |
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Do you really need to ask BN?
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 Kitosdad
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| #10 (permalink) Sat May 01, 2010 22:45 pm Pen down chicken die |
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Not really.
It's just as well I pieced my theory together in two minutes or so. (and I still think it's better than the supposed real explanation!) :)
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Beeesneees
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| #11 (permalink) Sun May 02, 2010 2:12 am Pen down chicken die |
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Please activate Javascript in your browser to listen to this audio recording | 98 Listened |
| Blue_Snow wrote: |
| Not intentionally. I've heard many native speakers in Vietnam say that. Maybe they're just kidding. But really I don't know what it means. |
Hi Blue Snow,
The original Vietnamese saying is "But sa ga chet". But means pen. Sa means, if it's a verb, drop/fall down slowly and tumble. Ga is chicken. "Chicken" is you in this context. And chet is the verb to die. Now you can understand the meaning of that saying. It means when you confirm something by words or writings (you put down your hand with a pen to write or sign for a confirmation) you are obliged to be responsible for what you have said or writen. You will never have right to complain to anyone about anything afterwards. Ex.:
A: Can I close this CB? Is it safe? Are your sure?
B: Sure
A: "once the pen's down the chicken dies"
C: Pay close attention to the delivery and payment terms. Have you read it carefully?
D: Yes, I have
C: OK, then "once the pen's down the chicken dies".
I've never heard the translation like that. There are many Vietnamese idioms translated into English without being verified by experts. It may be one out of those.
I hope my explanation makes sense to you.
Thank you and regards,
JLTS
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Joseph_Learns_To_Speak
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