Democracy

[Eihab]

Hi guys
Stop talking otherwise you'll find yourselves accused of terrorism.

[Tomasito]

Freedom of speech. This is one of the commandments of Democracy. Everybody has the right to express his opinion.
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Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
- Will Durant

[Political Lurker]

[Tomasito]

To deny an historical event like Holocaust is almost an absurd. Is the same to say that 9/11 didn't happen or slavery didn't existed in our world.
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Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
- Will Durant

[Political Lurker]

[Tomasito]

It's indeed unreasonable to jail for so many years just for saying that. I have heard that slavery began in Rome many centuries ago, before Christ.
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Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
- Will Durant

[Political Lurker]

[Prezbucky]

Yeah... as deplorable as a person's statement may be, he should have the right to utter it.

With freedom comes the good, the bad, the in-between.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Prezbucky]

ambivalent lurker:

We despised Saddam because he killed his own countrymen -- Kurdish
and Shi'a Iraqis. He was a despot. He needed to be removed. We were happy to do it. Add the invasion of Kuwait (tangible), backing of Al Qaeda in Iraq and the WMD (not found in Iraq...) and we felt we had plenty of reasons to remove him from power.

Chavez is a Socialist. Most of us (Americans) are for economic freedom and (therefore) against full-on Socialism, which rewards failure while punishing achievement -- bass-ackwards in terms of a valid reward system, IMO. We spent the better part of 50 years fighting the spread of the Communist plague, fighting two major wars (Korea and Vietnam) to protect liberty.

(obviously, based on what we know, Saddam was way worse than Chavez: while I hate socialism/Communism, and Chavez's little games, he at least doesn't seem to be murdering his countrymen. He may have stolen people's money for re-distribution, but he didn't gas them. He has cracked down on the press's freedom, however, which is a big no-no...).

Ahmadinejad has made bafflingly offensive statements while speaking in the US. His statements are WHY most of us see him as anti-Semitic. If he's playing "nice" with Iranian Jews now, I can only surmise that he's trying to improve his image here. Which means he's not as nuts as most Americans think. That nuke stuff they have going on had better be for energy only... not because we don't trust Iran, but because we're fearful of what might happen if it gets into terrorists' hands.

Iran has helped the insurgents in Iraq. They are the reason we've been there far longer than we'd hoped. I hope that when we're gone, they don't ruin the fledgeling democracy so many Iraqis support -- as shown by the number who turned out to vote, braving threat of violence to do so.

If today's insurgents want to gain our respect and even protection, they will drop their arms and vote to make their opinions known. Arguing is cool; shooting and suicide-bombing is not. We're not there to attack Islam; we're there to help them build a stable democratic state.

In Iraq we've been trying to secure Iraqis' God-given right to choose. I think our cause there has -- knowing fully that I don't know everything that has happened there or the motives -- per se, our efforts have been in good will.

I'd just as soon leave Iran alone. It would be nice if they'd stop aiding terrorists/insurgents, but ya can't always get what you want. hehe

Since the hostage thing 30-some years ago we've had disagreements with Iran but, to my knowledge, no actual acts of war or even skirmishes... right? We were indirectly involved in the Iran/Iraq war in the '80s. Even counting that, it's been about 25 years since that whole affair. So there's a big gap in beliefs but we've more or less maintained peace. Good.

All this talk of war is difficult for a gregarious person, especially in the midst of an international group. Ugh. Let's talk about ice cream.

Regards,

Tom
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Political Lurker]

[Foah]

Always when I read this stuff about democracy and accusations the other one was inhuman and threatening the world´s population I can´t refuse to wonder who´s right. Whilst inside the one country a dictator simply takes torturing and physical killing the citizens for his "God-given" right ( and justify their doing by claiming their victims were inhumans or religious enemies ) within the other country some mighty persons claim their right of destructing other one´s goods and stealing their livelihood by their economical power ( just think of the most recent economic crisis ). The ones claim they´d do everything from religious and holy reasons only and the other ones mean to do it all in the name of democracy. But how do differ religion from democracy? and which of both is preferable? I always envy those who are sure to be on the right track. On the other hand I wonder, whether there isn´t a way that takes the every person´s needs into account? Is there a certain way at all? What do you think, wasn´t it worth to think of a new way for human cohabitate without treating each other with war and violence and genocide or is it just an illusion such as in Spaceship Enterprise?

Perhaps humanity only needs another concept of enemy? I think, there are lots of - at least, worth to think about. What challenges can you imagine were capable to unfiy the humanity and make them forget their differences?
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"Ho ho!" said the clown

[Political Lurker]

Middle East
Deaths reported in Iran protest
A Iranian official confirms two deaths during Monday's clashes but police blame an outlawed group for them.

Iranian politicians have called for opposition leaders to be handed the death penalty following the protests [AFP]
Two people were killed at a banned opposition rally in Iran, a member of parliament has told the
Iranian Students' News Agency.

"At Monday's rally ... two people were martyred and many were wounded; one person was shot dead," Kazem Jalali said.

It was unclear how the second protester died.

So far, Iranian police have confirmed that one person was killed during clashes and blamed an outlawed group for shooting into the crowd.

"One person was martyred by Monafeghin [the People's Mujahedeen of Iran - PMOI] in the shooting at yesterday's events," Ahmad Reza Radan, deputy police chief of Iran, said on Tuesday, adding that nine security personnel were injured.

Earlier, the semi-official Fars news agency reported that a bystander had been shot dead and several wounded by protesters.

But the National Council of Resistance of Iran, which includes the PMOI, denied the allegations on Tuesday, saying "those in power crushed the demonstrators, firing live rounds and tear gas at them".

The Associated Press news agency had quoted witnesses saying that at least three protesters had been injured by bullets while dozens more were hospitalised after being beaten.

Dorsa Jabbari, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tehran, confirmed reports that security forces used tear gas, pepper spray and batons against the protesters.

As with other foreign media, she was prohibited by government order to witness the demonstrations.

Death penalty

During Monday's protests, thousands of people descended on central Tehran in support of the uprisings across Arab nations.

But Iranian politicians have called for opposition leaders to be handed the death penalty following the protests, accusing them of fomenting unrest.

"Mehdi Karroubi and Mir Hossein Mousavi are corrupts on earth and should be tried," politicians were quoted as saying by the official Irna news agency.


Protesters burn a picture of the late Ayatollah Khomeini and Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Hoseyni Khamenei. The demonstrators can be heard to chant "Mubarak, Ben Ali, now it's Seyyed Ali's turn."

The term "corrupt on earth", a charge which has been levelled at political dissidents in the past, carries the death penalty in the Islamic republic.

Gholamhossein Mohseni-Ejei, a judiciary spokesman, said: "Those who created public disorder on Monday will be confronted firmly and immediately."

Human-rights groups have criticised Iran's crackdown on protesters, while Western governments have voiced their support for the demonstration.

Amnesty International, the UK-based rights organisation, condemned authorities for making dozens of arrests, saying the crackdown was aimed at blocking the work of activists and stifling dissent.

"Iranians have a right to gather to peacefully express their support for the people of Egypt and Tunisia," Hassiba Hadj-Sahraoui, Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa deputy director, said.

Catherine Ashton, the European Union's foreign policy chief, urged Iran to refrain from using force against protesters, while Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, backed the rights of people to protest.

"We wish the opposition and the brave people in the streets across cities in Iran the same opportunity that they saw their Egyptian counterparts seize in the last week," Clinton said.

One-day event

An Iranian foreign ministry spokesman said comments from US officials were designed to distract from the changes going on in the Middle East.

Monday's marches were organised as a one-day event and it is unclear if further protests will take place later in the week.

A message posted on by the organisers of the demonstrations on the 25 Bahman Facebook site seemed to indicate that there might be more protests.

"The 25 Bahman group will try to announce the programme for of protests for tonight and tomorrow shortly," it read.

The current security clampdown is reminiscent of the one that crushed a wave of protests after the disputed re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, in June 2009.

There was few mentions of Monday's demonstrations on state-run television stations or websites.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112158387191255.html
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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

[Shanthisethuraman]

Hello

Do you know what you mean by Democracy? Democracy means by the people
for the people, of the people. Our Country India is occupying first place
in Democracy when compare with other countries. My policy is Be Indian
buy Indian, we will say like this. We have got full freedom in all activities
expect some activities. That is economic development, it will also improve
in course of time.

Thank you

S.Shanthi

[Political Lurker]

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

[Prezbucky]

Re: August 2010 rebuttals of my Defense of America (hehe)

- Yes, liberty is worth casualties
--> We were in Vietnam to stop the North from imposing the scourge of Communism on the South. To me, it was a just cause.
-->. We nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end WWII in the Pacific and, in so doing, likely saved hundreds of thousands of lives. An invasion of Japan would have been bloody hell.

The US isn't perfect, and hindsight is 20/20: we didn't know that installing the Shah in Iran would lead ultimately to the Ayatollahs. The stirrings of a democratic movement has our ears perked. That much is true -- we can't fight all fires, and sometimes we end up being wrong, but I will always believe that we try -- even Bush, even Obama -- to advance liberty, knowing that we are neither omniscient nor omnipotent. But we try to make things better for democracy. We really do.

Some doubt our motives at times. Does the US look out for its interests? Of course. But there is also a shred of altruism in us. When possible, we try to do good.

Life is about dealing with scarce resources:
- Money
- Food
- Land
- Human intelligence
As long as we have issues with any of the above, we'll struggle.

Now, my personal wish (as I take off my devil's costume) is for everyone to live a life of happy fulfillment, lacking want and saturated with friends and loving companionship.

As Brits would say, Cheers!
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.