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Firstly, secondly, etc.


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Firstly, secondly, etc. #1 (permalink) Mon Feb 06, 2006 19:58 pm   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

Hello everybody.

Our teacher of speaking/writing skills told us the other day that many of us made a mistake in our essay using 'firstly', 'secondly' etc. (we were supposed to clarify a certain point of view, i.e. to provide reasons). Her exact words were: 'Where did you come across those words? They do not exist in English'. I checked several dictionaries and all of them contained entries 'firstly' and 'secondly'. I am totally confused because she lived in the UK for many years and is a good speaker of English in general.
Can anybody prove her wrong? :)
Thanks,

Jasna
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Firstly/secondly #2 (permalink) Mon Feb 06, 2006 22:16 pm   Firstly/secondly
 

Hi Jasna,

I'd hate to come between you and your teacher but I must say that firstly was first used in the sense of in the first place in the 17th century and secondly probably during the 18th century and this is verified in the Oxford English Dictionary which is based as they say on historical principles. This means that the use of words is recorded as and when they were first used.

Alan
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Firstly, secondly etc #3 (permalink) Mon Feb 06, 2006 23:58 pm   Firstly, secondly etc
 

Thank you, Alan. Now I have to think of a way to tell her that. I hope she's not too vain. :)
Jasna
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Firstly, secondly etc #4 (permalink) Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:40 am   Firstly, secondly etc
 

.
However, I understand her feeling, Jasna. First and second are perfectly good adverbs, and for enumerating e.g. points in a thesis, I find firstly and secondly unnecessary and stylistically unattractive.
.
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Firstly, secondly etc #5 (permalink) Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:57 am   Firstly, secondly etc
 

Mister Micawber wrote:
.
However, I understand her feeling, Jasna. First and second are perfectly good adverbs, and for enumerating e.g. points in a thesis, I find firstly and secondly unnecessary and stylistically unattractive.
.


That's a good point. Maybe she wanted to say that those were obsolete forms but didn't make her point that way. Instead she said those words didn't exist.
Thanks for the clarification, Mister Micawber.
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Firstly, secondly etc #6 (permalink) Thu Apr 02, 2009 17:40 pm   Firstly, secondly etc
 

Actually, "firstly" dates from the 1500's. There are many words from history that are no longer used today. Your teacher may have slightly mispoken and said it the wrong way, but her goal is for you to learn current proper usage. If we could get everything from books, we wouldn't need any teachers.
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Firstly, secondly etc #7 (permalink) Thu Apr 02, 2009 18:08 pm   Firstly, secondly etc
 

" If we could get everything from books, we wouldn't need any teachers."

Oh, but we would my friend. Where is the human element in your reasoning ?. It requires a good teacher to breathe life into the words of a book. Breath and life that could never be drawn from the written pages of the book alone.

Read a good book yourself, and then ask a good storyteller to read the same book to you. A world of difference. Not many of us have the abilities to become teachers, and we should be forever grateful that our children have people with these abilities.

I have known many people who were teachers. Some nice people, some nasty people, but they were all great teachers.!

I do agree with you that a book is a great source of knowledge, but without a good teacher it is like a meal without condiments.

Kitosdad.
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #8 (permalink) Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:37 am   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

Kitosdad, I totally agree in the value of a great teacher, but one must not forget that the greatest lesson a teacher can and must teach is the ability to learn. Education is worthless without the ability to analyze what is presented and search it for truth. If a teacher fails to educate in this manner, the teacher has failed to educate at all.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #9 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 21:35 pm   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

What about the use of the word lastly? Would last be sufficient?
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #10 (permalink) Thu Jun 18, 2009 23:00 pm   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

Yes
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Firstly, secondly etc #11 (permalink) Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:50 am   Firstly, secondly etc
 

First, I whole heartedly agree with kitsodad's answer; to the extent that I would love to use his response as a quote, if possible, on another web page.

Second, I discovered this thread as a result of asking this very question, that is, what is the correct form and usage, "First" or "Firstly?" It seems to be the opinion of the professional literary that the use of "Firstly" has become much too unwieldy within either the context of good writing form or for usage in today's vernacular.

Third, as with all other exceptions to the rule, my thoughts have their pros and cons. I suppose this is due to the fact that we accept it as "okay" when license is taken and allowed with the writing of one's own language under the various formats and venues existing within today's world: newspapers, magazines, the internet or educational studies, to name just a few.

"I know what I will do, and in doing it, it will be done." - from a paper entitled I'll Second that Redundancy Again
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communication is key to understanding #12 (permalink) Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:56 am   communication is key to understanding
 

Quote:
" If we could get everything from books, we wouldn't need any teachers."

Oh, but we would my friend. Where is the human element in your reasoning ?. It requires a good teacher to breathe life into the words of a book. Breath and life that could never be drawn from the written pages of the book alone.


You know, I hate to bring this up so long after the fact, but I would feel like there were still loose ends flying around waiting to unravel the lives of the individuals involved if I did not say anything. Smischke implied that we could not get everything from books and thus the need for teachers. Therefore Kitosdad's remark is extremely illogical and uneccessary. He went on to explain what all we can not get from a good book and attributed these losses to the lack of human interaction. However, Smischke's original statement that we can not get "everything" from books intrinsically makes such conclusions.

Like I said, I hate to be argumentative myself, but Smischke's reply did not address this logical fallacy so I felt a little responsible for setting the record straight!

I, too, have heard the same, that "First, Second, and Third" are correct and "firstly, Secondly, and Thirdly" were just commonly used but mistakes. I appreciate the feedback from the forum.
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #13 (permalink) Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:02 am   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

Hi Enocsun,

I wouldn't worry too much about whether it's 'first' or 'firstly'. Both are used and it's not really a question of correctness. My feeling is that 'first' 'second' and so on are preferable and sound less pretentious but that's just my preference.

Alan
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #14 (permalink) Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:27 am   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

I agree. I mean, I am a TEFL teacher in China and one of my trainers years ago told me about the "Firstly Foul" and, personally, I feel he was at least correct in that "First" does sound better. However, it is good to see the replies from others in here that confirm "Firstly" is equally legitimate so that I am not giving false information to my students.

Thanks for letting me know the thread is not a dead duck!
Enocsun
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Firstly, secondly, etc. #15 (permalink) Tue Apr 06, 2010 13:22 pm   Firstly, secondly, etc.
 

does anyone else think it strange that this thread has 51,000 views?
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