Firstly, secondly, etc.

[Jasna]

Hello everybody.

Our teacher of speaking/writing skills told us the other day that many of us made a mistake in our essay using 'firstly', 'secondly' etc. (we were supposed to clarify a certain point of view, i.e. to provide reasons). Her exact words were: 'Where did you come across those words? They do not exist in English'. I checked several dictionaries and all of them contained entries 'firstly' and 'secondly'. I am totally confused because she lived in the UK for many years and is a good speaker of English in general.
Can anybody prove her wrong? :)
Thanks,

Jasna

[Alan]

Hi Jasna,

I'd hate to come between you and your teacher but I must say that firstly was first used in the sense of in the first place in the 17th century and secondly probably during the 18th century and this is verified in the Oxford English Dictionary which is based as they say on historical principles. This means that the use of words is recorded as and when they were first used.

Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple

[Jasna]

Thank you, Alan. Now I have to think of a way to tell her that. I hope she's not too vain. :)

[Mister Micawber]

.
However, I understand her feeling, Jasna. First and second are perfectly good adverbs, and for enumerating e.g. points in a thesis, I find firstly and secondly unnecessary and stylistically unattractive.
.
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's

[Jasna]

[Smischke]

Actually, "firstly" dates from the 1500's. There are many words from history that are no longer used today. Your teacher may have slightly mispoken and said it the wrong way, but her goal is for you to learn current proper usage. If we could get everything from books, we wouldn't need any teachers.

[Kitosdad]

" If we could get everything from books, we wouldn't need any teachers."

Oh, but we would my friend. Where is the human element in your reasoning ?. It requires a good teacher to breathe life into the words of a book. Breath and life that could never be drawn from the written pages of the book alone.

Read a good book yourself, and then ask a good storyteller to read the same book to you. A world of difference. Not many of us have the abilities to become teachers, and we should be forever grateful that our children have people with these abilities.

I have known many people who were teachers. Some nice people, some nasty people, but they were all great teachers.!

I do agree with you that a book is a great source of knowledge, but without a good teacher it is like a meal without condiments.

Kitosdad.
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Keep it simple ... Keep it interesting.

[Mbwatson]

Kitosdad, I totally agree in the value of a great teacher, but one must not forget that the greatest lesson a teacher can and must teach is the ability to learn. Education is worthless without the ability to analyze what is presented and search it for truth. If a teacher fails to educate in this manner, the teacher has failed to educate at all.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

[Lancezilla]

What about the use of the word lastly? Would last be sufficient?

[Mister Micawber]

Yes
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's

[Krpinkela]

First, I whole heartedly agree with kitsodad's answer; to the extent that I would love to use his response as a quote, if possible, on another web page.

Second, I discovered this thread as a result of asking this very question, that is, what is the correct form and usage, "First" or "Firstly?" It seems to be the opinion of the professional literary that the use of "Firstly" has become much too unwieldy within either the context of good writing form or for usage in today's vernacular.

Third, as with all other exceptions to the rule, my thoughts have their pros and cons. I suppose this is due to the fact that we accept it as "okay" when license is taken and allowed with the writing of one's own language under the various formats and venues existing within today's world: newspapers, magazines, the internet or educational studies, to name just a few.

"I know what I will do, and in doing it, it will be done." - from a paper entitled I'll Second that Redundancy Again

[Enocsun]

[Alan]

Hi Enocsun,

I wouldn't worry too much about whether it's 'first' or 'firstly'. Both are used and it's not really a question of correctness. My feeling is that 'first' 'second' and so on are preferable and sound less pretentious but that's just my preference.

Alan
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English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms

[Enocsun]

I agree. I mean, I am a TEFL teacher in China and one of my trainers years ago told me about the "Firstly Foul" and, personally, I feel he was at least correct in that "First" does sound better. However, it is good to see the replies from others in here that confirm "Firstly" is equally legitimate so that I am not giving false information to my students.

Thanks for letting me know the thread is not a dead duck!

[Boke]

does anyone else think it strange that this thread has 51,000 views?
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