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Everybody put their money?


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Meaning of perish | He's finished eating VERSUS he's finishes eating
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:32 am  Everybody put their money?
 

I forgot to thank you for welcoming me to the forum. This looks like a neat place for a pedant, or one to whom others have referred thusly on one or two Wink occasions.

I also forgot that we cannot edit... I do not mean to add to the message pile unnecessarily, but I did want to add this:

If non-syntax-based (IE, cultural) variables make choosing "his" or "her" in relation to "everybody" a sensitive issue, then probably we should invent a non-sex-sensitive possessive pronoun.

So how about... hmmm... "heirs"?

The next step would be to assign this word a "correct" pronunciation: should "heirs" be pronounced as "hares," "airs" or "hears"? (I live in the southern United States, so I can get away with the following...) Probably many US Southerners would mangle it into "hires" or "hars". But we at lest need to give it a basic pronunciation before the different English dialects get hold of it and mangle it, in truly varied dialectic (or would it be "dialectical"?) fashion.

Finally, having created the word and blabbed it all over town and printed it in books, newspapers and other writing-based media, we'd have to convince millions of English-speakers (not to be confused with speakers produced in England -- English speakers) to use "heirs" as well. Then, perhaps, "heirs" would gain a spot in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and our work will be finished.

When that great day arrives, everybody and heirs brother will use "heirs" in such places as that which we have heretofore discussed.

hehe

Smile

Generally one of the things that troubles me is that so many new words/phrases/usage rules seem to stem from poor usage. It used to be that poets drove change in our language. Now it seems that not-always-English-aware businesspeople (business grow; one does not grow a business!), among others, are driving the changes to our great language.
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Everybody Wed Nov 08, 2006 14:25 pm  Everybody
 

Hi,

So everybody has to be followed by singular personal pronouns and possessive adjectives, does it? Oh come on, that's 19th century thinking!

Incidentally is 'hehe' a name, a sexist plug or a description of a chuckle?

A
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 19:55 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

"hehe" is meant to signify chuckling

Concerning the Everybody crisis:
I've perhaps only seen two or three style books and just a few grammar/composition texts, but none of them have taught that "everybody" could be paired with plural pronouns (etc.). The rule seems to be akin to the subject/verb agreement rule (singular with singular, plural with plural).

Are there style books that are not as strict with reference to "everybody"?
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Agreement Wed Nov 08, 2006 20:28 pm  Agreement
 

Hi,

Funny you should say that:

Quote:
I've perhaps only seen two or three style books and just a few grammar/composition texts, but none of them have ?? taught that "everybody" could be paired with plural pronouns (etc.). The rule seems to be akin to the subject/verb agreement rule (singular with singular, plural with plural).

Ho ho

A
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 21:18 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

prezbucky wrote:
Concerning the Everybody crisis:
I've perhaps only seen two or three style books and just a few grammar/composition texts, but none of them have taught that "everybody" could be paired with plural pronouns (etc.). The rule seems to be akin to the subject/verb agreement rule (singular with singular, plural with plural).

Are there style books that are not as strict with reference to "everybody"?

Hi prezbucky

My copy of Grammar In Use (Raymond Murphy) mentions the use of plural pronouns after having used "everybody". I like one of the examples given:

Everybody said they enjoyed themselves at the party.

Now, if we were to replace they and themselves with either he / himself or she / herself, things would really get muddled. Laughing

Amy
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 21:22 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

Absolutely

A
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Agreement Wed Nov 08, 2006 21:51 pm  Agreement
 

Alan wrote:
Hi,

Funny you should say that:

Quote:
I've perhaps only seen two or three style books and just a few grammar/composition texts, but none of them have ?? taught that "everybody" could be paired with plural pronouns (etc.). The rule seems to be akin to the subject/verb agreement rule (singular with singular, plural with plural).

Ho ho

A

Is the tense not acceptable? I'll try to rephrase:

As I have progressed in my English education (meaning: continuing; the process continues), the books which I have seen have stated that "everyone," since it is singular, are properly paired with singular pronouns (etc.).

THIRE! (southern pronunciation of "there")

hehe

I am trying to find one such tome, but as my web-searching skills are seriously limited, it may take a while.
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 21:52 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

sheesh, now i need help.

"everyone," since it is singular, IS properly paired...

cripes
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 21:58 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

Okay, I found one, and this is a rather stupendous (! hehe) style book. This is taken from the MLA style book:
-------------------------------------------------

Using Pronouns Clearly
Because a pronoun REFERS BACK to a noun or TAKES THE PLACE OF that noun, you have to use the correct pronoun so that your reader clearly understands which noun your pronoun is referring to.

Therefore, pronouns should:

1. Agree in number

If the pronoun takes the place of a singular noun, you have to use a singular pronoun.

If a student parks a car on campus, he or she has to buy a parking sticker.
(NOT: If a student parks a car on campus, they have to buy a parking sticker.)
Remember: the words everybody, anybody, anyone, each, neither, nobody, someone, a person, etc. are singular and take singular pronouns.

Everybody ought to do his or her best. (NOT: their best)
Neither of the girls brought her umbrella. (NOT: their umbrellas)
NOTE: Many people find the construction "his or her" wordy, so if it is possible to use a plural noun as your antecedent so that you can use "they" as your pronoun, it may be wise to do so. If you do use a singular noun and the context makes the gender clear, then it is permissible to use just "his" or "her" rather than "his or her."
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 22:03 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

Hi prezbucky

This is an interesting website:
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/sgtheirl.html Mr. Green

Just an added note:
In my book, style and grammar are frequently two very different cups of tea.

Amy
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 22:58 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

cool beans

What is syntax then?

hehe

(I hope you guys don't think I'm a jerk to continue bloviating about "everybody")
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Everybody put their money? Wed Nov 08, 2006 23:03 pm  Everybody put their money?
 

i don't know if MLA refers to itself as a "style" book, per se. Seriously (no kidding this time), we were told in every college class (that required term papers, research papers, etc.) to use the MLA as a grammar/style guide.

I read a clever book called "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" (hope I got that right) by an English author named Lynne Truss... and I loved it.

So are you Liverpool fans, Man U fans, Spurs fans (etc.)?
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Everybody put their money? Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:09 am  Everybody put their money?
 

Ho Prezbucky,

I highlighted this quote of yours: 'but none of them have ?? taught ..' not because of the tense but because of the juxtaposition of 'none' and 'have'. Am I flogging a dead horse here or what?

Ho ho

A
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Everybody put their money? Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:02 am  Everybody put their money?
 

"them" refers to the English grammar sources

hence, "none of them" means "none of the English sources"

"have taught" implies (or was meant to imply) continued use of those sources. I could take out the "have," but that would mean that I no longer use the sources. (well I very rarely do, but even a small amount of use means that they're still being used. hehe)
---------------------------

What do you think of putting a comma (for instance) inside of a quotation that would otherwise not include a comma?

For instance, I see this a lot with titles in quotations:

The movies "Give Me A Gun," "Harley Fenn And The Mistress's Husband," and "Brown Bananas" are all good.

Why is it said that the comma should be placed inside of the end quotation, when clearly the comma is not part of the title? It seems to me that the best way to do this would be to put the comma outside of the end quotation, so that only the title is in quotations.

The movies "Give Me A Gun", "Harley Fenn And The Mistress's Husband", and "Brown Bananas" are all good.

Please advise.
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Everybody put their money? Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:23 am  Everybody put their money?
 

Hi, ho ho, he he,

All I am saying is and quite frankly I'm wishing I hadn't started, 'none' means 'not one' and is singular and so needs a singular verb, doesn't it?

A
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