Everybody put their money?

[prezbucky]

I forgot to thank you for welcoming me to the forum. This looks like a neat place for a pedant, or one to whom others have referred thusly on one or two occasions.

I also forgot that we cannot edit... I do not mean to add to the message pile unnecessarily, but I did want to add this:

If non-syntax-based (IE, cultural) variables make choosing "his" or "her" in relation to "everybody" a sensitive issue, then probably we should invent a non-sex-sensitive possessive pronoun.

So how about... hmmm... "heirs"?

The next step would be to assign this word a "correct" pronunciation: should "heirs" be pronounced as "hares," "airs" or "hears"? (I live in the southern United States, so I can get away with the following...) Probably many US Southerners would mangle it into "hires" or "hars". But we at lest need to give it a basic pronunciation before the different English dialects get hold of it and mangle it, in truly varied dialectic (or would it be "dialectical"?) fashion.

Finally, having created the word and blabbed it all over town and printed it in books, newspapers and other writing-based media, we'd have to convince millions of English-speakers (not to be confused with speakers produced in England -- English speakers) to use "heirs" as well. Then, perhaps, "heirs" would gain a spot in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary and our work will be finished.

When that great day arrives, everybody and heirs brother will use "heirs" in such places as that which we have heretofore discussed.

hehe



Generally one of the things that troubles me is that so many new words/phrases/usage rules seem to stem from poor usage. It used to be that poets drove change in our language. Now it seems that not-always-English-aware businesspeople (business grow; one does not grow a business!), among others, are driving the changes to our great language.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alan]

Hi,

So everybody has to be followed by singular personal pronouns and possessive adjectives, does it? Oh come on, that's 19th century thinking!

Incidentally is 'hehe' a name, a sexist plug or a description of a chuckle?

A
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English as a Second Language
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[prezbucky]

"hehe" is meant to signify chuckling

Concerning the Everybody crisis:
I've perhaps only seen two or three style books and just a few grammar/composition texts, but none of them have taught that "everybody" could be paired with plural pronouns (etc.). The rule seems to be akin to the subject/verb agreement rule (singular with singular, plural with plural).

Are there style books that are not as strict with reference to "everybody"?
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alan]

Hi,

Funny you should say that:

[Yankee]

[Alan]

Absolutely

A
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[prezbucky]

[prezbucky]

sheesh, now i need help.

"everyone," since it is singular, IS properly paired...

cripes
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

Okay, I found one, and this is a rather stupendous (! hehe) style book. This is taken from the MLA style book:
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Using Pronouns Clearly
Because a pronoun REFERS BACK to a noun or TAKES THE PLACE OF that noun, you have to use the correct pronoun so that your reader clearly understands which noun your pronoun is referring to.

Therefore, pronouns should:

1. Agree in number

If the pronoun takes the place of a singular noun, you have to use a singular pronoun.

If a student parks a car on campus, he or she has to buy a parking sticker.
(NOT: If a student parks a car on campus, they have to buy a parking sticker.)
Remember: the words everybody, anybody, anyone, each, neither, nobody, someone, a person, etc. are singular and take singular pronouns.

Everybody ought to do his or her best. (NOT: their best)
Neither of the girls brought her umbrella. (NOT: their umbrellas)
NOTE: Many people find the construction "his or her" wordy, so if it is possible to use a plural noun as your antecedent so that you can use "they" as your pronoun, it may be wise to do so. If you do use a singular noun and the context makes the gender clear, then it is permissible to use just "his" or "her" rather than "his or her."
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Yankee]

Hi prezbucky

This is an interesting website:
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/sgtheirl.html

Just an added note:
In my book, style and grammar are frequently two very different cups of tea.

Amy
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[prezbucky]

cool beans

What is syntax then?

hehe

(I hope you guys don't think I'm a jerk to continue bloviating about "everybody")
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

i don't know if MLA refers to itself as a "style" book, per se. Seriously (no kidding this time), we were told in every college class (that required term papers, research papers, etc.) to use the MLA as a grammar/style guide.

I read a clever book called "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" (hope I got that right) by an English author named Lynne Truss... and I loved it.

So are you Liverpool fans, Man U fans, Spurs fans (etc.)?
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alan]

Ho Prezbucky,

I highlighted this quote of yours: 'but none of them have ?? taught ..' not because of the tense but because of the juxtaposition of 'none' and 'have'. Am I flogging a dead horse here or what?

Ho ho

A
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English as a Foreign Language
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[prezbucky]

"them" refers to the English grammar sources

hence, "none of them" means "none of the English sources"

"have taught" implies (or was meant to imply) continued use of those sources. I could take out the "have," but that would mean that I no longer use the sources. (well I very rarely do, but even a small amount of use means that they're still being used. hehe)
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What do you think of putting a comma (for instance) inside of a quotation that would otherwise not include a comma?

For instance, I see this a lot with titles in quotations:

The movies "Give Me A Gun," "Harley Fenn And The Mistress's Husband," and "Brown Bananas" are all good.

Why is it said that the comma should be placed inside of the end quotation, when clearly the comma is not part of the title? It seems to me that the best way to do this would be to put the comma outside of the end quotation, so that only the title is in quotations.

The movies "Give Me A Gun", "Harley Fenn And The Mistress's Husband", and "Brown Bananas" are all good.

Please advise.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alan]

Hi, ho ho, he he,

All I am saying is and quite frankly I'm wishing I hadn't started, 'none' means 'not one' and is singular and so needs a singular verb, doesn't it?

A
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English as a Second Language
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