Englishes: Some thoughts on the different types of English

[Alan]

Hi,

Some thoughts on the different types of English:

Short story: 'Englishes'?
http://www.english-test.net/stories/53/index.html

Regards,
Alan
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[Daniela]

What is more, as far as I know, a reform like that started by printing out a newspaper in phonetic English. It was supposed to be easier for the people to read because, for example “a table” would be spelt “teibal” (the way it is pronounced). Many people, whose native language is phonetic (mine is one of them), would be really happy because this would have saved them a lot of hard work studying the English spelling. But when this newspaper came out, it turned out that people couldn’t even recognize the words, they looked weird to them and not only was the reform not welcomed, but they wanted back their old and difficult spelling. They just felt comfortable with it. So that reform, or rather the vague beginning of it, was a complete failure.

Although English spelling is not easy, I think that it’s at least not boring because it keeps you alert.

As far as the British/ American differences in spelling are concerned, for a couple of years now both spellings are acceptable in my country, even when you have to sit for a university exam. Years ago only the British spelling was recognized as the correct one. One did have to spell “colour, travelled” etc. Now, it’s fine if you spell “color, traveled”, etc. Focus is put not so much on spelling mistakes but on other writing skills, such as style, cohesion, coherence and the like. The same goes for vocabulary. As long as the text conveys an idea and is in good language, it doesn’t matter if you use, let’s say, at the weekend or on the weekend (to use some of the phrases discussed in this forum).
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[Jamie (K)]

When I first read guidelines for taking the Cambridge First Certificate exam years ago, I saw that they advised people to stay consistent with the spelling they choose, whether British or American. My immediate thought was, "What would happen to someone who learned English in Canada?" Canadians write centre and colour like the British, but like the Americans they write tire instead of tyre, and they frequently write -ize like the Americans where the British would write -ise. In other cases, they can choose, as between defence and defense. Are the Cambridge testers generally aware of this? How do they handle it?

In addition to that, some "British" spellings are acceptable alternatives in the US. We are permitted to write traveled or travelled, for example.

Having been on teams grading high school entrance exams in Eastern Europe, and having been a grader on the SPEAK test, I can say I've had the disturbing experience of watching sausage being made. It's easy for me to imagine that, with the wrong tester, one of these acceptable variant spellings would act as a trigger and lower the person's score. I imagine the Cambridge testers are better trained than that, but I can see it happening in the staff room of a school in some non-English-speaking country.

As for coming up with a phonetic spelling system that works for the whole English-speaking world, I doubt it's possible. Look at all the different possible regional pronunciations of a simple word like car: There are [ka:], [kar], [kor], [k?], [kua], and many others. No matter what phonetic spelling system you choose, it's going to have a "foreign" accent for almost everybody. Our difficult spelling is part of what unifies us.

[Conchita]

[Molly]

Time to revive this thread? Come back, Conchita.

[Molly]

[Jamie (K)]

[Molly]

No reason not to know about other Englishes.

http://www.news.ai/language.html

The Internet is big and wide.

[Jamie (K)]

Yes, we all spend a lot of time wondering how people talk on the island of Anguilla. This is important knowledge. Thank you.

[nomisyar]

[Torsten]

[Molly]

[Molly]

[Molly]

Has anyone here read this book?

The English Languages
Tom McArthur
Cambridge University Press 1998

Extract from a review:

"Understanding the complexity and diversity of English worldwide is becoming increasingly important. Native speakers publishing on the Internet, to take one obvious example, must realise that we are writing for readers whose Englishes may be far from our standard Australian or standard American."

Go here for more on it: dannyreviews.com/h/English_Languages.html

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How about this journal? Can anyone here recommend it?

World Englishes
Edited by:
Margie Berns and Daniel R. Davis

www.blackwellpublishing.com/journal.asp?ref=0883-2919

[nomisyar]

Molly,

I don't think there is much else to say, you are well entrenched in your position, and I wish you luck with it. Everyone is free to their opinion. I will only say one more time, that the point of language is to communicate ideas, and if your goal is to have someone truly understand what your are thinking, where you are coming from, and what you are feeling, I think that it would easier to do so by using accepted and yes, standard language forms.

I did not assume that the Anguillans do not now the standard English, but, now that you bring up that point, most of the people from the Caribbean that I have met, from over a dozen Islands, did not know proper grammar usages. Personally I think it began in part as an attempt to distance themselves from colonial powers, who forced them to speak the sovereign language. Also, due to slave trade, a small population of native islanders, and Indian immigrants, a hodgepodge of languages and cultures were intermingled and the only place where one could hear and learn the proper English was from the plantation owners, the oppressors. And tell me, who wants to speak like the people who are whipping you and stealing your resources. Even after the countries reached (semi) independence, this “new” language, became the lingua franca of the peoples. When I go back and visit family, it takes a day or two for me to understand, and get used to all the verbal and grammatical shortcuts.

Yes, I use words, like proper and right, and correct. There is a proper way, and original, a template, and anything else is a derivation, it is not the standard. It is not passing judgment to say that it is not correct, because it isn't. I'm not saying it’s morally evil, or ignorant, or even stupid, just that it is not the correct form of the usage.

I enjoy writing, and part of that pleasure is derived from finding ways to express my ideas within the parameters of the language. Using a common medium to express new and uncommon ideas in hopes that others will understand, that is the fun of it. Its challenging, and its takes a bit of work, and it makes it all that more enjoyable. To throw words crudely on paper without care for grammar or spelling is an affront to my sense of the potential beauty of the written word. Poetry and other forms of creative writing are better avenues to push the envelope of a written language. But web site offering important information to its citizens should be clear, concise and correct.

OK, I suppose I got carried away again.

I will say again, as not to incite the wrath of some readers, that I do not write these statements with any animosity or intent to damage. If my comments appear as much, please let me know, rather than responding with verbal sallies of your own.

That said, I do find it amusing, that the journal you cite in your argument is published by Blackwell. I use to work for John Wiley and Sons, Inc. The publisher that acquired Blackwell last year, Blackwell's journals are now called "Wiley-Blackwell. Blackwell is a thoroughly “British” company. I will allow anyone to draw any inferences, generalizations, or stereotypes from that, if they desire.