Conditional tense I

[Yankee]

[Alan]

Hi,

I am assuming your comment

[MrPedantic]

Hello Alan,

Thanks for explaining the rationale in this example.

The problem is, the test states that "will have to" is incorrect in a general sense, in a conditional statement. As your own usage shows, this is not the case.

If you read the comments of the different students, you'll see that considerable confusion has ensued. Even Torsten has been misled.

As for your point about "really": even if it were true, any student who could appreciate such a minute distinction would have no need to practise English with these tests.

Best wishes,

MrP

[Yankee]

Hi Alan

You've taken the time to describe some of what goes into the writing of a test. Having written many a test myself, however, I couldn't help but notice that you did not cover the process of test creation in its entirety. It is quite typical and desirable for a test to also be objectively edited and revised after it's been written. Revisions might be based primarily on editor input, or they might be based on test-taker results/feedback. Often it is a combination of the two. This editing and revision is designed to improve the test, not to destroy it.

MrP's points hit the nail on the head:

- The sentence with "will have to" is simply is not wrong by any stretch of the imagination.

- You have test-taker feedback, and it highlights the problem in this particular test sentence.

- You also have native-speaker feedback, and that native-speaker feedback has come from native speakers who are also well-versed in ESL.

- You have examples of the use of "will have to" taken from your own site. These examples contradict this test.

- You have suggested that the use of the word "really" in the sentence is supposed to make it clear that "will have to" is incorrect. I don't agree with that. However, even if the word "really" did create such a nuance, it is not reasonable to expect a beginner level student to know that.

As I see it, you are so emotionally attached to your own test that you can't see the forest for the trees. One advantage in having someone other than the author do the editing and revision of a test is that an outside editor is often able to be more objective. It's not unheard of for an author to become overly emotionally attached to something he's written.

[Stew.t.]

Hi guys

This thread is intriguing and highlights the debate issue that can be present in classrooms, but not necessarily some material creation.

The subtlety of "really" I would have to say is not entirely suitable for a beginner or even competent usage in this context of a high A2 (European Common framework) level student.

The point Alan makes is pretty accurate in the fact that the example does denote an urgency.

The creation of material is a complex process, but just as a teacher should be willing to see his flaws, so should a material creator.

There are no heroes and perfection does not exist, well apart from at the flicks (Batman being released here) ; ), but we should all be able to take on criticism in order to up the ante, don´t you think?
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[Torsten]

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

Most of the tests I've written are ESL tests -- placement tests, tests for my classes, etc. Tests in general English, tests in business English, tests for adult learners, tests for kids.
I've also written tests in non-ESL subjects (as a teacher in a public school).
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[Yankee]

[Stew.t.]

Hi Amy

Placement tests are quite difficult, are they not?

A comprehensive written test is quite hard. I have used results from schools and found them really off kilter.

Also I think a purely written placement test is worthless.

Do you use a progressive difficulty or focused sections?

And

Does America have something similiar to the ECF? www.britishcouncil.org/morocco-english-general-european.htm
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[Yankee]

Hi Stew

The placement tests I've worked on were generally collaborative. And I felt that was good. The communication and feedback between us worked well.
One test I worked on, for example, was specifically designed for use in an ESL program within a particular company.
I agree that part of a complete ESL testing process must include speaking. However, the topic in this thread is a written test, so that is what I have been discussing.

The tests I've created, both collaboratively and on my own, have been varied. The tests I've written alone have typically gone through a variety of revisions for a variety of reasons after they were written. The collaborative tests have also gone through revision. And that is why I do not understand the sometimes incredible resistance to revision on this site.
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[Torsten]

Hi Amy,

Are any of your tests still being used?
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TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Stew.t.]

Hi Amy

Revisions are natural in anything that assesses language skills.

Still curious if an equivalent to ECF exists in America?

And what elements did you include, multiple choice, paraphrasing, written, word recognition, eliciting?
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[Yankee]

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Sure, why not?
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[Yankee]

Do you want to open a separate thread on how to write a test, Stew?
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[Stew.t.]

Hi Amy

Not really, but thks for the offer.

I just wanted to share ideas with someone with experience, if that is okay with you? (ya like my switch back to conditonals)
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