Bizarre - or how to find a job in Germany?

[Torsten]

Hi Michael, I respect your desicion, you are perfectly free to talk about any topic. I was not my intention to 'teach' how to live and I'm sorry for coming across this way.
As far as strange people are concerned, you are certainly right but then again it might all depend on how you define normal. Yes, I'm aware that the initial subject of this thread was the use of the word bizarre and we went off in a different direction which in my opinion is perfectly fine because this is what happens in real life situations too.

Regards
Torsten
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Torsten!

Yes, you?re right. Everything can happen, that?s life!! Your intention was?nt to teach me how to live and to offend you wasn?t mine. Please let me give a short explanation to you about what happend to me here:
Entering this site and joining to your memberlist i intended to learn English. My imagination had been that i write anything and there is anybody having a big textmarker who marks the mistakes that i have made and shakes his wisely head. I really have been waiting for that. Instead of that you requested me and took me to a break even point where i have to correct my imagination. After having a cap of sleep i perceived this and must recognize that your requestions took me to a higher level in range of language.
If you are able to accept this excuse i ?ll be ready to go on with our exchange!

Regards (Is this the better word?)

Michael

[Torsten]

Hi Michael,

I think I have an idea of what your expectations were when you found our site. You wanted somebody to amend your sentences and that's quite reasonable. You are capable of expression your thoughts in English and when you communicate with our team you can improve your skills because learning a language is a bit like playing tennis - you hit the ball, it comes back and you hit again. So, instead of 'correcting' your English we have just been using the language to exchange ideas. Maybe we can leave the job hunting topic for a while and come back to it at a later point. In the meantime we can talk about anything you want.

Cheers,
Torsten

PS: You can close your message with 'best regards', 'kind regards', 'regards', 'talk to you soon', 'bye' etc. - what's best really depends a number of things.
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Torsten!

You compared learning English with a tennis match and i think it?s a good comparision. Absolutely certain are you the more experienced player. Although you don?t want to make the point, i think, it is my duty to hold the ball in the game.
So let me explain that i?m perfectly ready to go on with our job finding course despite the sudden interrupt i made. Like in a real tennis match, after a big point, the match must develop again slowly. So i try to reopen the match:
Your ideas are interesting. The first reason why i?m looking for a job is to earn a life, of course. Wondering which else reason might be there i ?m used to say it is the one and the only. I?ve never felt a holy call or anything else, otherwise i might have got a doctor, a psychololgist, social worker, priest or perhaps a teacher? So i am what i am: a mechanical technician with good proficiency in steel construction and some in mechanical construction. Not to be missunderstood: this is not an occupational call but i like it.
This is my reopen the game.I?m sorry to say that i must warm up again.

Regards

Michael

P.s.: Are you really a European? I am not Dr.Proctor and you?re not needed to answer!

[Torsten]

Hi Michael,

To start with your last question, yes I consider myself a European. As with any other social and economic development there are pros and cons to the entire EU concept. I focus on the advantages a unified Europe is bringing about. For example, I'm now free to travel to all the EU countries and I'm even allowed to work there. Learning English or any other language makes sense only if you can apply our knowledge so I'm glad I can hop on a plane and go to the UK or Ireland any time. That's why I say I'm from Europe and from Germany.
What do you think about this issue? Of course we can also return to the job hunting question if you like.

Regards
Torsten
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Torsten!

A well chosen point of time to speak about the EU! Did you see the football- (soccer-) match this evening. It seemed to be a match between two european football communities : AC Milano-FC Barcelona. Looking that game i have been enthusiasmized about the range of skills the players showed. I?m used to say that football have won with the UEFA Champions League. Did you watch the names of the players: ronaldinho, serghinho, kaka, valdes, and so on.... they all are southamerican players. Especially the name ETO?O i want to mention , an Ethiopian player. So, why do we speak about Europe.
Europe is an actually theme for us Europian. A Europian Union will make us Europian a big fortune, some of them you mentioned in your latest reply. An other is: the power of a common Europe might be immense. But sometimes i wonder what the power will become used for, what is the price for it and what happens behind the scenery?
Looking on this site as well as having a look to the today?s evening football game i have one more question: Could Europe be old fashioned? Also have i experienced an example i would like to tell you: Last year i worked for a machine factory that is the property of an economic connection ( i avoid to tell the name here). I?ve been told that two of the connection?s owners are the familiys Bush and Bin Laden! I?m not really sure that this information was correct but correct is that the concern is an ww concern. Once in a month the administrator of the Europian part of this connection came from Belgium to check the business?s profit.
So the European Union is a political community. Could it bring any safety to the people? What do you think?

Regards

Michael

[Torsten]

Hi Michael,

As you say, a community is a group of people with common goals and rules. People always have connections with and to other people and organizations. I don't see the EU as much as a political or economic entity. What I see is the benefits a 'united' Europe might bring to its citizens. You mentioned our site and our 'e-community'. When we organize our first face to face meeting we can select any country within the EU because this means at least those forum users residing in one of the (soon) 27 EU member states can travel to that country without any additional paper work. (and maybe they won't even have to exchange any money).

So, I'm trying to focus on the more immediate advantages of the EU. I could as well talk about the many disadvantages the European Union brings about. Every new development might have its drawbacks but looking at the bright side means we will be happier and we will come up with new ideas. Yes, I think if we all pull together we can learn from each other and compare solutions and approaches to combine the best of them in a new way.

As for the connections the Bush and Bin Landen families might have with parts of the world economy - it might be difficult to tell how exactly they built their empires (I still think there is a substantial difference in the political and social system Bush and Bin Laden represent). It is quite clear that there must be connections between the political elites and the leaders of the industry. But we could as well use the freedom we have and create our own community. I'm still amazed by the fact that the Internet and the English language enable us to communicate with anyone in the world. I see the development of the EU as a part of this process....
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Torsten!

Did i do anything wrong? Did i come across pessimistic? I would like going on communicating on this site. But anyhow i can?t defend the feeling that i?ve failed!
Could you please tell me if in which way?

Thanks in advance

Michael

[Torsten]

Hi Michael, you have expressed some very interesting thoughts, I especially like your suggestions regarding the Mars strategy. So everything is OK, just keep on communicating with us. You can talk about anything you want as long as it is in English, we're always here for you. Communication is an ongoing process and as long as you ask questions, you will always get some type of response.
What do you think?

Regards
Torsten
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Torsten!

May be that it has been my impression only! But regarding my interrupting this conversation i have a little bit a bad conscience! Especially when i have a look to the topic "Where is ESL going....."! There is written about missing the personal contact! Some of my replies i wrote in an provoking way intentionally! May be that my expactations had been to much! But thats what about online learning could not be exciting!
Yesterday evening while my wife was surfing at the ebay i scetched a long text that goes on with our theme we had last. But now i first will work with my horse. ??ll tip it in later.

Thanks for your quick response!

Will be back later!

Michael

[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi again Torsten!

One of your suggestions in your latest reply was to look on the bright of life! That reminds me a little bit to Monthy Python?s Life of Brian! You can remember the final scenery? They were hanging at their crosses and the Optimist began singing "Always look at the bright sight of life......!"? I think i?m not straightly a pessimist if i didn?t agree to him!
Yes, you are right when you speak about travelling to the East of Europe. Years ago when you arrived at the border between East and West - mostly it was between BRD and DDR - later it was Germany East - Poland- you thought that on the other side of the border would be a different extraterrastrian world. To cross the border you had to fill out documents and you had to be ready for controlling yourself and your lagguage! After you passed the borderline you always felt watched anywhere! Okay, that?s history and very well as it is now!When i was there they had two currencies old and new Zloty. Like i told in my introduction that had been ten of my most pleasent days in my life!
Thinking about Western Europe I had experiences with Netherlands. It wasn?t difficult passing the borderline. Onliy when in Germany had been particulary holiday you had to wait in a car damming up but usually you could step from BRD to Netherlands after a short look into your passport by the border guardians if you were not a wanted person. Now there are two pillows and a sign board showing you that there is a borderline. By the way, i experienced anything like that when i?ve been 19 years old. Arrivied at the borderline between France and Belgium as good old German we stopped our car because there were some red lights above the highway. Beside the highway sat a borderguardian in his cabin. Seeing that we stood still in front of some red lights he started laughing and it took some time before he gave as a sign to pass the line. We spent our holidays in Northern France and we often passed that border without stopping once again. We showed our passports when we arrived the German border again first. Yes, it is much easier to travel inside Europe since the borders have been opened.

Only, i think, i must be allowed to ask whether this had been really the intentions of the politicians or if there might be some other reasons for opening the borders? Is it pessimistic to ask this questions or might be the answers helpful for handling the future?

Drawbacks are for the pessimists only. For a realist there are consequences only which the realist can learn to handle them.

Regarding my reply that contains the example of football: it wasn?t meant negativ or pessimistic. I only wanted to show that in several areas of life the development is in front of the politic for many steps. Exactly the same might be said watching the families of George W. and Osama if that what if been told will be right. But there are also a lot of differences and the duty is to eliminate them. One step certainly might be to speak one language only. The industrial nations prefer the English because it is the most approved in buisiness and technik.
I myself do so too because i have a little experience now and i think it is a very interesting one! Or did you prefer to read I like it??

Regards

Michael

[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi!

Sorry for coming across with this theme again but I have to cry my anger into the space andf if you don?t want you mustn?t go on reading this.

It is a point that fits to the headline fo this topic "Bizarre or how to find a job in Germany"

How to find a job in Germany?
First you have to watch many sources where jobs will be offered. You must compare the requests on the job to your skills and knowledges and figure out which of the offered jobs could suit.
Than when you have figured that out mostly you write a letter of application due to the offered job. How do you do that?
1. You introduce yourself short
2. You express your opinion to the discribed requests short
3. Maybe you shortly describe your goals for the future
4. You requires the employer to invite you for an interview
You can be sure that this isn?t a work that you can do during a few minutes because you must do that in a easily visible and easy understandable way so that it attracts the reader?s attention and don?t bore him.
Then you have to work over your CV. That isn?t as much if the datas are actually you only have to update the dates of writing.
At last you add your certificates of school lessons and your work certificates to that put your whole application into one or two files or in an envelope and send it to the employer. To this point of time everything is good.
But now the mess begins. Of course the employer has many else duties than to answer immediately after he recieved the application so a little time span passes by before he answers. Often enough isn?t his opinion that you are not the right one to fillful the job and that he shares you when 3 month min had gone by if he does it at all. More or less you will become familar with that.
But what makes me really angry is why in Heavenbuttockthunderstorminthehell do they send me a form for applicants to fillful with all the datas you gave them in your letter of application????
I mean they certainly uses your datas when they gave you the job and I think it is early enough to fillful this form when you have got the job or am I wrong here?

Michael

[Torsten]

Hi Michael,

It's good to have brought up this top again because most of our users want to improve their English because they want to advance in their careers. I completely understand your frustration - if a potential employer asks you to fill in a form and provide the same type of information you have already given them - it can only mean one thing: They have not paid attention to your application and/or CV. So, the question is how can we get an employer to listen to us? I mean, how can make sure they will read our CV and get interested in our qualifications and expertise? I have my own suggestions and really would like to share them with you. To illustrate, I'd like to point out the following: It is a fact that a lot (if not the majority) of vacancies are never advertised in public places such as the newspaper or the Internet. Would you agree with this statement? If so why do you think that is?
Let's take it one step (or rather one question) at a time, OK?

Regards
Torsten

PS: I hope it will also be OK with you if I point out some grammar/spelling issue. Please check the following words:
than vs. then
receive
date (singular)
data (plural)
datas (non-existent)
fulfil vs. fill in/fill out

Please, understand that it is NOT important how 'correct' your English is now. What really counts is the fact that you are making progress and more importantly, that you are already capable of expressing your thoughts. And your thoughts are more valuable and important than grammar rules! So keep on posting and I'm sure Alan, Amy, Jamie, Conchita and all the others will help you with your grammar too...
What's more important than your current level of English is the level you will have achieved in a few weeks!
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[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Yes Torsten, everything is fine, also your advice to my spelling/grammar errors. They happened to me because I am really angry. So I didn?t really had a look to my gammar. But first about the errors:
You are right in both cases : the first of my Then?s is wrong and also the spelling of receive. Thanks for your advice.

Now about my reason for being angry:
Actually, three weeks ago, I found a job offering in the job market of the work agency. As the date of the offering refered to the Dec. 2005 I sent an E-Mail to the employee in which I asked whether the offering is up to date. One day later I?ve got an E-Mail in which the employee confirmed the actuality of the offering and required me to send him/her my letter of application and also made sure that he/she would answer inbetween the same week. So I putted my documents together and sent them via E-Mail to him/her immediately. Nothing happend that week and nothing the next week too. Yesterday fetching my Mails from the Online brief-case I found a news from him/her:

"Dear Mr. Otto,

Thanks for showing interest in our company. We enjoy your application!

After reviewing your application we can imagine your collaboration with us.

Please fillful the added form and send it back to us. After its receiving at us we will contact you again immediately.

Kind Regards!
............."

As I?ve got such answers not only once and hardly ever anything happened I wonder why they often send such adding forms although they atmost know that they don?t want to employe me? Now the onus is on me spending a lot of time to fillful that stupid form and probably nothing will happen!

That is what I hate about applying!

Michael

P.S.: For me the grammar does matter and therefore I enjoy every correction you all can give me. Thanks!

[Jamie (K)]

I frequently get responses from translation agencies that then request I fill in an electronic form that asks for the same information that's on my r?sum?. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means they want your information in their database, so that they can use it more easily and match it with the right jobs. Of course, they could have a secretary input that data, but why should they, when you're the one asking for a job?

Nowadays some US companies require that you apply online and never ask you to send any paper at all. This is done with entry-level jobs a lot, and with jobs where they need to verify that you have minimal computer competency.

I am in the middle of reading an extremely informative, absolutely hilarious book called Confessions of a Recruiting Director by Brad Karsh. It's really written for college students, but any experienced employee will enjoy it and learn from it. We always wonder what happens to our r?sum? after we submit it, and this man gives us the shocking truth. He also explains very well how people should network, how they should interview, etc. This guy has been the recruiter on the other side of the desk, and he knows what his type are looking for. I recommend this book to absolutely anyone.

Also a couple of corrections, Michael:

One day later I've got an E-Mail in which the employee confirmed the actuality of the offering.

I've got -- It should be I got, because you mentioned the timeframe during which you got the message.

employee -- You meant employer.

actuality -- This word means Wirklichkeit, or reality. You should have said currency.

So, you should have written, "One day later, I got an e-mail in which the employer confirmed that the offer was still current."