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#2 (permalink) Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:42 pm Re: "if" and "in case" |
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Without getting into hair-splitting analyses, (1) and (2) mean pretty much the same thing.
(3) is not a great sentence in my opinion. I think "in case" or "since" would work better here, depending on intended meaning. |
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Dozy I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Posts: 3315 Location: UK
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#3 (permalink) Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:27 am "if" and "in case" |
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Dear Dozy,
I appreciate your help and comments.
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| (3) is not a great sentence in my opinion. |
Could you help us fix (3), which I think native speakers of American English will accept?
Do you approve of both (4a) and (4b), or only of (4b)? (4) a. In case you're interested, I inform you that Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five. b. In case you're interested, I'd like to inform that Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five.
Seiichi MYOGA |
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Seiichi Myoga You can meet me at english-test.net
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 82
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#4 (permalink) Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:58 pm "if" and "in case" |
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I'm not sure that there is any difference in the acceptability of #3 (or any of the other sentences) between AmE and other varieties of English. I think it's probably more down to individual preferences. In #3 I tend to read "I inform you" as being conditional on "if you're interested", which then contradicts the fact that the speaker is informing the other person regardless. I know that actually, as in #1, "if you're interested" is not intended to directly condition anything else stated in the sentence, but still it feels a bit awkward to me.
4b should be "I'd like to inform you that". That fixed, I find 4a and 4b more satisfactory because it's fine to do something "in case" of something else without knowing whether that thing will be true or not. In fact, that's the whole point of "in case". 4b is a bit less abrupt than 4a, and would usually be preferable. |
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Dozy I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Posts: 3315 Location: UK
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#5 (permalink) Tue Oct 25, 2011 17:55 pm "if" and "in case" |
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From sentence "In case you're interested in it, I inform you that Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five." my conclusion is that if you are not interested in it prof. Murgatroyd will not speak tomorrow at five.
My version
Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five. I inform you for you might be interested in it. Anyway, I've already booked two chairs in case you're coming.
Thanks |
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E2e4 I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Posts: 1229
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#6 (permalink) Tue Oct 25, 2011 18:14 pm "if" and "in case" |
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Sorry E2, that's not correct. _________________ Cheers m' dears! |
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Beeesneees Language Coach

Joined: 08 Apr 2010 Posts: 20463 Location: UK, born and bred
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#7 (permalink) Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:52 am "if" and "in case" |
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Dear Dozy,
Again, I appreciate your help and comments.
I'm afraid I wrongly understood your comments.
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| (3) is not a great sentence in my opinion. |
The general explanation for (2) will be: "In case you're interested" specifies a condition on the felicity of the speech act. And the subordinate clause modifies an understood performative clause.
What I want to know is exactly what is the implicit performative clause. I'd like to start the paraphrase of (2) (for that matter, and (1)) with "if" so that learners of English can understand "in case" in question means a condition.
The problem seems to lie in the fact that "if" and "I inform you that" don't go well. Something like (3) is used to explain what something else is saying, so may not be said or heard in everyday usage.
Do you think now (5) makes sense to you?
(5) I'm telling you, if you're interested, that Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five.
Seiichi MYOGA |
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Seiichi Myoga You can meet me at english-test.net
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 82
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#8 (permalink) Fri Oct 28, 2011 13:55 pm "if" and "in case" |
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In neither (1) nor (2) is there a prominent sense that the sentence is a true conditional one. The "if" and "in case" clauses are more just figures of speech designed to explain the speaker's reason for imparting the information and make the sentence seem less bald and abrupt.
In full, (2) would be "In case you're interested in going, I'm telling you that Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five". As usual, "in case" means that the speaker does not know whether a certain thing is or will be true, but is doing something anyway because it will be beneficial if that thing is true.
Strictly speaking (1) is not a logical use of "if", but it is an accepted idiomatic use, and is understood to mean the same as (2). If you had to write a sentence with a strictly logical "if you're interested" condition then it would be something like "Prof. Murgatroyd will speak tomorrow at five, and, if you're interested, you might want to go". However, this translation is not normally necessary since the original "If you're interested, ..." is understood as an idiomatic pattern.
The reason why (3) does not work very well (in my opinion) seems at least partly that the insertion of "I inform you" disrupts this idiomatic pattern. (5) suffers less from this problem and seems a tolerable sentence to me. (Being fussy, one could say that "I'm telling you" has a hint of forcefulness that is slightly at odds with the rest of the sentence. However, this nit-pick is unrelated to your main question.) |
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Dozy I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Posts: 3315 Location: UK
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| Are these sentences natural? October 25 | something |