|
|
 Thu May 04, 2006 23:38 pm What is a world leader anyway? |
|
|
| check wrote: |  What world leaders are multi-lingual? |
What worries me is not whether so-called 'world leaders' (doesn't the term sound ridiculous?) are multi-lingual, but rather what they understand by 'world leader' or how they define themselves. And please forgive my ignorance of politics if I ask what the difference between a world leader and a dictator is. |
|
Conchita
Language Coach
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 2702
Location: Madrid, Spain
|
|
| Fri May 05, 2006 6:55 am What is a leader? |
|
|
Hi Conchita, you have made an interesting point. Maybe we should start this discussion by defining the word 'leader'. What does 'to lead others' mean? Do we need leaders? Looking around I would answer that last question with 'yes'. What about you?
PS: We can return to the initial question about being multilingual any time.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7269
Location: EU
|
 |
| Fri May 05, 2006 15:21 pm World leaders |
|
|
What I think is that we probably need to be guided, some people more than others. But the idea of a ‘world leader’ (or a handful of them) is alarming, not to say frightening, in the light of what power usually does to people. Hence my question – which was more of a statement – about the difference between a world leader (which amounts to say ‘absolute boss’) and a dictator.
Concentrating power on one person/entity/country only is dangerous and totally unreasonable, in my opinion, especially since power leads you to believe you can impose on others anything from your personal 'morality' to you personal idea of 'justice'. The world looks too much like a huge competition: which nation has the best religion, the best moral values, the most oil reserves, armaments, money...the most POWER. If it can have the best education and health systems it’s OK, too, though least important, by far, it seems.
Just some modest views. |
|
Conchita
Language Coach
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 2702
Location: Madrid, Spain
|
|
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 7781
Location: USA
|
|
| Thu May 11, 2006 15:29 pm What world leaders are multi-lingual? |
|
|
| Yankee wrote: | But, returning to the original question What world leaders are multi-lingual?, I have to admit, my first thought was of "Dubya". The reason: I sometimes ask myself whether the President of the United States is even monolingual.  Have any of you read or heard any of the many "Bushisms"? Mr. Bush's verbal output can be downright dumbfounding. |
I've brought this up before in another thread, Amy, but I'll mention again that part of this Bushism phenomenon is a journalistic trick. Having worked on magazines, I have seen how it's done.
Nobody always talks in a way that is fit for print media. Everyone says, um, uh, y'know, has false starts, trips over a word here and there, and uses various circumlocutions. One job of the editor is to take these raw quotes and refine them so that they sound okay in print.
When journalists or other print media people have it in for a certain politician, and they want to create the impression that he's stupid, they run raw, unedited quotes. You can do it to any politician, or any person at all for that matter. When Clinton was president, they did it to him some, and you can still find some of those raw quotes on the Internet. Mostly, however, they do it to Republicans. People seem to forget that this trick was used a great deal to produce "Reaganisms" in the 1980s. It was the same trick, with the same intention, which was to make Reagan look like an imbecile. Gerald Ford, before him, had a bad knee from football, and they used his tripping as evidence of "stupidity", so they didn't need unedited quotes.
Listen closely to any politician or celebrity interviewed on TV and think about what they're really saying. A good part of what they say would sound idiotic if it were run unedited in a newspaper. Michael Moore is a good one for that. He says monumentally stupid-sounding things, but nobody prints the raw quotes and asserts that he's an idiot. Ted Kennedy and Jesse Jackson frequently say things that aren't even intelligible, but they are generally protected by the media, and the newspapers don't print the quotations. You can catch their nonsensical statements on TV sometimes.
| Yankee wrote: | The other day I was watching CNN and there was a short report with Mr. Bush in it. He didn't say much, but I couldn't help noticing that when he said the word 'heinous', the word suddenly had 4 syllables instead of 2! The sad part of this story is that I remember his mispronunciation of the word 'heinous' so very clearly, and absolutely nothing else of what he said.  |
Bush has taken on a Texas drawl in later life. Don't forget that in parts of the south words like "hand" and "help" have two syllables. It's not inconceivable that in Texas "heinous" has three. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
| Sat May 13, 2006 9:10 am What world leaders are multi-lingual? |
|
|
Hi,
Jan Pawel II - the previous Pope.
Maybe not the leader?
well he had known many , few really perfect, he has changed the native language into missionary weapon.
I am agnostic and my father was a member of Martin Luther Church and I don't like men I prefer women special when talking about popery,
but somehow in the field of languages(learning of them)
I had felt always the big respect to this man.
regards
Jan |
|
Jan
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: at sea
|
|
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 7781
Location: USA
|
|
| Sat May 13, 2006 10:30 am George W Bush |
|
|
Hi,
I was interested to read the robust defence of Mr Bush from Jamie. The question I would like answered is why he should have gained this unflattering reputation. The Prime Minister of the UK, Tony Blair (and I'm not of course putting him forward as a world leader) always speaks highly of him and is much criticised here for supporting most of what Bush does on the world stage.
On another point about filming leaders in their worst moments, Blair is known for his pauses. There was a recording recently of one of his speeches and a brass band was played during the pauses - quite a lot of the music was played in these 'intervals'. Maybe that's the secret - don't hesitate, just pause.
Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Word Story: Search Engines |
|
Alan
Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 7363
Location: UK
|
|
| Sat May 13, 2006 12:01 pm What world leaders are multi-lingual? |
|
|
| Jamie (K) wrote: | | Mostly, however, they do it to Republicans. People seem to forget that this trick was used a great deal to produce "Reaganisms" in the 1980s. It was the same trick, with the same intention, which was to make Reagan look like an imbecile. Gerald Ford, before him, had a bad knee from football, and they used his tripping as evidence of "stupidity", so they didn't need unedited quotes. |
Hi again, Jamie
I've just got to ask about your reference to "Reaganisms". I'm sure Reagan did say some strange things that were later published/broadcast and even ridiculed, but I really can't understand your point here. After all, Reagan is referred to as "The Great Communicator". I feel quite sure most people will never think of Mr. Bush this way.
What I remember most clearly from Reagan's time in office (in terms of "negative" reporting) are the reports of his dozing off during cabinet meetings, etc. --- particularly during his second term. But I also remember sympathizing with that to a point, even though people made fun of it. (i.e. I could imagine how listening to a bunch of politicians or government employees might put you to sleep.)
In retrospect I now sometimes ask myself whether the effects of Alzheimers had already begun during Reagan's second term. But, for the life of me, I can't remember anything being reported about Reagan that even begins to compare to Bush when it comes to verbal slip-ups.
Maybe I'm getting Alzheimer's, too. 
Amy
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 7781
Location: USA
|
|
| Sat May 13, 2006 12:26 pm Bush vs. Clinton |
|
|
Shortly after Bush got elected I remember asking of my US acquaintances about his opinion regarding Bush and Clinton. He said the most apparent difference between both was that Clinton 'worked with the camera' while Bushed worked against it. Back then my friend was referring to the fact that Clinton knows exactly how to use this body language effectively while Bush doesn't come across very well. I think it is true, even if you don't understand what Bush is saying his body language language and facial expressions convey a lot...
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7269
Location: EU
|
|
| Sat May 13, 2006 14:01 pm George W Bush |
|
|
| Alan wrote: | | I was interested to read the robust defence of Mr Bush from Jamie. The question I would like answered is why he should have gained this unflattering reputation. |
I wasn't defending Bush specifically, but any president who gets pounded on by the media for being stupid.
You have to understand politics in regard to the American media, and the attitude of people in each party toward the other. Democrats tend to think people on the right are evil, stupid or both. Republicans tend to think that people on the left are childish, naive and just don't understand yet. Since the overwhelming majority of our journalists are leftist to one degree or another, the Democratic view plays out in the media, and it is consciously used against Republicans.
As I mentioned, when Gerald Ford was president he frequently had trouble with a bad knee he'd developed in his days as a football player. He tended to trip. This was eventually transformed by comedians and others in the media into evidence that Ford was "stupid", and in the next election, you'd hear younger people who knew NOTHING about politics walking around saying, "I'm voting for Carter, because Ford is just STUPID!" Since that time, people in the media have always made an immediate effort to display evidence that any Republican president is "stupid". The use of raw quotes in the press is one of the most common techniques. They did it to Reagan, they did it a bit to Bush 41, and now they're doing it to Dubya.
On the other hand, Democrat presidents generally get treated as intelligent, thoughtful men no matter how they flub up. Under Carter's watch, the economy was terrible (although the president can't control the economy that much), and he made some outrageously naive foreign policy errors that assisted genocides and allowed despotic regimes to take over where they could have been prevented. Nearly everything he touched (NEARLY everything) was a catastrophe, but he is still referred to as "one of our most intelligent presidents". We all know Clinton's foolish mistakes, but he is similarly treated. Gore tells hilarious, completely needless lies that he is easily caught in -- and does it again and again and again -- but he is also treated in most media as a very intelligent man. However, raw, unedited quotes have also been used against them at times to show that they are somehow feeble minded, just not as much as they are used against Republicans.
Personally, I don't think any of them are stupid.
Amy, I think your memory must be selective, because, while conservatives referred to Reagan as The Great Communicator, and that is the name that has stuck, at the time he was president there were constant attempts to "prove" that he was "stupid", "senile" or just couldn't talk. There were even entire books published of his verbal gaffes, just as there currently are about Bush. I remember it well, because I was a leftie at the time, and I used to revel in the stuff.
Anyway, many intelligent people don't talk well. I have a dentist who is intelligent, very competent and always up on the latest in his field. However, I'm sure a few new patients have jumped out of the chair and refused to let him touch their teeth, because he talks a bit like a football player who's been hit in the head too many times. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
|
| Doing Business As (DBA)/Trading As (UK) | Visual Thesaurus |
