The war in Iran

[Against the warz]

Is it a good idea to start the war in Iran?

The US says it wants a diplomatic solution, but has not ruled out a military strike. Reports by Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker magazine that the US has been carrying secret reconnaissance missions to learn about nuclear, chemical and missile sites in Iran as a prelude for possible air strikes only pile on the jitters on an already uneasy oil market.

I think the Bush administration should announce its intention to hold direct talks with Iran.

What do you mean?

[Jamie (K)]

[spencer]

I just hate all the wars.
Period.
No country wins a war because it's the good country, or the bad country.
People have to kill each other for reasons what they don't even know.
America acts like batman, who helps the good countries, and punishes the badones.
Only batman didn't have family members left to die every day while they trying to keep a country under control.
I don't know who is right, or wrong, I just can't see the war working out too good so far.
Wars are for making money,easy as that.
If you one of those who make money of war, the war is good.
If you one of those,who fight,and die,the war is bad.
And you know what?
What if batman get whipped once?
Hitler didn't lose because he was bad,he lost because he wasn't lucky.
The big shots say whatever they want, I wouldn't go to play G.I.Joe and kill people I don't even know.
Just one more thought:
If you asked Henrick the VIII. about his wife-killing habit in front of the court,what would he answer?
He wouldn't get what the hell you are talking about,and would say:'cause I do whatever I want.
I can't believe how come anyone thinks his life is more important than for example mine.
It's like the king in chess.
They made the war, they should go fight,not me, or other not politican working fathers, and sons.
Sorry, I'm not a war-hating maniac (I didn't even know I had my own opinion about wars untill just now)
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Spencer

[Torsten]

Hi think we can all agree that killing people or killing a person is inhumane and in any war people get killed through highly sophisticated methods. As a matter of fact, the latest and best technologies are not used in the civil sector but by the military. So, maybe the question is not so much whether or not a war in Iran or in any other country is good or bad.

The question should be why mankind has not been able to abandon violence, killing, torturing, and any other way of causing misery as a means of achieving their goals. We obviously are not capable of getting along with each other peacefully. By 'we' I'm referring to all inhabitants of planet Earth. Imagine somebody from another plan would watch us - they way we are treating our environment, the way we are treating each other - how do you think they would feel about us?

There is only 'us' on this planet - not 'us and 'them'. We are talking about 'the Iranians', 'the Americans', 'the Jews' etc. We have not been able to finally admit that we should engage in a competition of thoughts and ideas rather than cowardly wars. Any war starts in the mind of a group of people. We have to find a way of changing those minds in such a way that they switch from war to other methods of competition. Wars are started because of ignorance and lack of interest. Most of us are too preoccupied with our daily 'problems' to think about wars in other countries. The only way of avoiding wars is raise awareness for basic principles of communication.

So, what do you think we can do to achieve this?

PS: I'm just watching a report showing how the Internet is being used in Syria. The key to stop killings and violence is exchaning information, learning to get what you want without harming others...
_________________
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[spencer]

Hi Torsten,
I don't think anyone knows the ANSWER, but what I know is everything has two sides, and there will be always reasons for do, or not to do things.
You know the saying goes like: alcoholic the person,who drinks as much as we do, but we just don't like him.
Marsers from the Mars?
They're gonna blow up the whole planet in no time, 'cause they'll think the T-rex was much nicer the time before, along with all the raptors,and sharks.
Not to mention the killerpiglets, or THE BIG WHITE BLOODHAMSTERS, even they were less mean than we are.

Spencer

[Jamie (K)]

Torsten, your beliefs and sentiments are good, and I agree with most of them, but you've left out one thing: There's no plan for preventing the emergence of psychopaths, people with anti-social personality disorder or other megalomaniacs of various sorts.

Unless you stop people like this from getting power and using it, you can't end war. Communication won't do it, because these guys don't communicate in good faith. They're more than glad to commuicate with you as long as you don't stop them from what they want to do.

Here's a little anecdote to explain my point on a micro level: A paramedic I know was called with his partner to a home where a man had some medical problem, but in fact was also running around in a near homocidal rage. Since he did need medical treatment, they subdued him, sandwiched him between two stretchers, secured him with strong belts so that he couldn't move, and bound his hands. When they got him to the hospital, an unusually idealistic nurse berated them for being so rough with some patients. They explained to him what his problem was, and she scoffed at their caution. She sweetly talked to the man, told him she was going to have the paramedics unbind him, and got him to promise to behave himself properly. He was very cooperative with her, agreed to everything very nicely, and once the paramedics had untied him, he immediately punched the nurse's teeth out.

Nearly identical situations happen constantly among nations. The communication was very clear, the man cooperated until he was unrestricted, and then he did the destructive thing he wanted to.

You say that the latest and best technologies are not used in the civil sector, but in the military. I would not say that's universally true, since such technologies are often used in aerospace, medicine and telecommunications.

Anyway, look at what the military use of this technology results in. The bombs generally dropped in an aerial attack (at least by my country) are computerized and guided by satellite in order to minimize civilian casualties. People I know from Baghdad tell me that during the attack in 1991 they went about their normal business a lot of the time, because they'd found that if they weren't next to a military target, there was very little chance of being hit. Things can go wrong sometimes, but I'd sure rather be in a city under attack with that technology than to be in London or Dresden during WWII.

Spencer, you said that war is all about money, and I also think that's a bit too simplistic. You forget that often the absence of war can also be all about money. Often various parties claim to promote "peace", when all they want to do is prevent interruption of their economic interests, even if that means letting a huge genocide continue.

A year or so ago I heard an interesting interview with Thomas P.M. Barnett, who wrote a book called The Pentagon's New Map. He made the interesting point that the way to prevent war is to promote economic interdependence. Most genocides and other acts necessitating war are caused by leaders who try to isolate their people from the outside -- economically, culturally and informationally. He says that the more countries become dependent on the rest of the world, the more civilized they behave, and the less likely to resort to armed conflict. He gave very good examples.

[Torsten]

[Alan]

Hi,

Torsten has just been very eloquent and I have no intention of adding anything more except agreement with his comments. I would however like to mention just one thing. Jamie is very keen on initiating competitions not with any prizes except that of the honour of getting it right. I therefore nominate him as the winner so far this year of the Creator of the Understatement of the Year:

[spencer]

Hi Alan,
It's a nice quote, but not true.
Things MOSTLY go wrong.
The question is only HOW wrong they go.
Spencer