I really enjoy an atmosphere at this ESL Forum!

[prezbucky]

I definitely hate Saddam and Bin Laden, and I wonder if Sharon wants to wipe out an entire race of people... but while President Bush can be a bumbling fool at times, with the vocabulary of a six-year-old (though creative!), I think in his heart he means to do good. I think he actually thought that removing Saddam would bring Iraqis together in the arms of freedom, voting for their leaders, etc. That hasn't happened yet, and I wonder if we shouldn't instead have pushed an agenda, perhaps, to beseech the Iraqis to split into three countries:

Kurdistan
Sunnistan
Shiastan

something like that. Sunni Iraqis and Shi'a Iraqis, at least, seem wholly unable to get along. Or at least some of them cannot get along, and those are the ones who make it onto the nightly news. We don't hear the good stories.

It is a confused situation. At this point, I hope that the militant Iraqi Sunnis can embrace their new government and look forward to VOTING for change instead of killing for it. (as it seems to me, at least, that it is mostly the militant Sunnis in Iraq who are causing the fight -- in other words, if they stopped attacking Shi'a, then Shi'a might stop hitting them back).

I don't think Iraqis could have overthrown Saddam on their own. That is important because we should not remove dictators when the people themselves are able to overthrow that dictator. With that distinction made, Saddam's removal ostensibly improves the lot of about 70% of Iraqis. The ones who seem to be complaining most are those who lost power -- notably Ba'ath party members.

I cannot speak for all Americans, but I would imagine that most of us want Iraqis to live in peace under a democratic government that is able to protect the people and ensure their new-found rights. Those rights are for ALL Iraqis -- Sunni, Shi'a, Kurd -- and it's important that Sunnis know that. Perhaps we've failed in convincing them of this.

At any rate, that's my two cents' worth. hehe

I hate politics!
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alan]

Hi,

[prezbucky]

I don't imagine your press are too kind to the US/UK efforts to help Iraqis get back on with their lives in this new era, with a democratically elected governing body... we want them to be able to get on with things. I don't know anyone here who harbors ill feelings for peaceful Iraqis. It's those who, with intent, murder people arbitrarily, just to sicken the stomachs of the West, to make us lose heart in Iraqis' newfound freedom and what it takes to maintain it.

Iraqis showed that they want this (most of them, anyway) by braving bullets to vote. I would not vote if voting meant my life would be threatened, yet so many of them did. This tells us that they appreciate the right to vote. They had no such rights under Saddam -- no way to remove him.

At its base, trying to free a people from a brutal dictator is a noble cause (and yes, we should do more in Africa, among other places). We've removed the dictator, no doubt with some intelligence from Iraqis (had to be -- who else would know he was hiding in that hole in the ground?), but it's proved difficult to get his supporters to accept that they no longer are in the catbird seat there. If they would just become part of the new republic and accept that totalitarianism is not acceptable anymore, Iraq could move on. By showing up en masse at the polls, Iraqis showed that THEY don't want totalitarianism anymore. They want elected government. But no, the insurgents can't do that. Instead they murder civilians on purpose to try to foil the plans of most Iraqis to move on with this new government (the peaceful Sunnis, Shi'a and Kurds). In short, the few are ruining things for the many.

There may be great Sunni politicians out there who could greatly contribute to the new democratic Iraq, but for fear of retribution at the hands of the militant Sunnis, they are not being heard.

Our security strategy might have sucked. That, I won't argue. How much of that can be pinned on the president is a matter of dispute -- he is not a military man. We underestimated the number of troops necessary to keep security in Iraq after Saddam was deposed and the election process had been executed -- the Sunni insurgency will not cooperate with this newly elected government, and they're proving tough to control.

If they'd just move on and get involved in their new government (by speaking, voting, etc., not shooting and bombing), Iraq could move on.

I want good things for Iraq and Iraqis.

Most Iraqis were miserable under Saddam.

Now Saddam is gone, the Iraqis have elected their own government, some Iraqi security forces are being trained... in short, we have fundamental building blocks of the republican form of government. Some simply refuse to accept it, and rather than be quiet or speak their minds peacefully, they insist on wreaking havoc.

I have a question:

If the Sunnis stopped their end of the violence, would the Shi'a stop too? If so, we need to figure out a way to get the Sunni insurgents to stop their end of this.

What sort of sensible promises/concessions could be made to militant Sunnis to help end the nonsensical, anti-new-Iraq bloodshed?
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

I apologize if my tone sounds strong -- I don't mean it to. I'm just trying to give some justification for the effort in Iraq. We didn't know enough, we assumed too much, and those things (among others) have helped lead to the current situation.

I will stop talking about this -- as a parting thought, my heart really is with the Iraqi people who suffer. I hope that something can be done to quell the insurgency, so that Iraq can become a peaceful democratic state.

And it's Friday... cripes, I need to think about ice cream or something. hehe
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Dark magician]

[Dark magician]

Iwon't talk in same subject next time

the peace for all world

Mba
_________________
Right is always stronger than iniquity.

[Dark magician]

I'm so Sorry Tamara If I make your thread to that.
I'm very sorry
really I worry about you...

best wishes for you

Mba
_________________
Right is always stronger than iniquity.

[prezbucky]

no, dude, we're cool

this was one of those deals where i meant to say about 10 kind/joking words and ended up saying a hundred or more, in the process of which making myself sound uber-serious. hehe

BTW

Your Georgia Bulldogs (hehe) won their annual rivalry game against Georgia Tech.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Conchita]

[Hercules]

[Torsten]

Hi Herc, when it comes to discussing world politics you are often governed by your emotions which makes it difficult for you to evaluate complex situations. Saying that another person is 'stupid' or a 'criminal' might give you a good feeling. It doesn't help find 'the truth', though. In your world, there are only 'good guys' and 'bad guys' -- just like in a Hollywood action movie. Wake up Herc. It's time to admit that there are no 'bad governments' or 'good governments' and that the Iraq conflict (or the any other conflict) is a bit more complex than saying you are the good guys and the others are the bad ones. If you don't acknowledge this fact, you always will have a hard time accepting reality.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Dark magician]

[Hercules]

Hi Torsten

Be sure that when I say or write any words , I have meant them and I know what I wrote .. and I'm sure you know that , but unfortunately, and after your latest writing , you proved that the right or the truth is so difficult to understand it ...

[Pamela]

Hi Herc, Mba, FangFang
Don't you know where our common friend Tamara is. Maybe, she is booked this week

[Dark magician]

Hi,Pamela
I hope that....
and I wish Tamara had good time

PS. in your new pic you show very beautiful

Mba
_________________
Right is always stronger than iniquity.