How do you measure and quantify your English?

[Torsten]

Hi,

What do you think of English language tests, exams and certificates? How important is it to you to get your English language skills measured and quantified? Have you ever wanted to compare your 'level of English' with the proficiency of others? I'm asking this question because I often meet people who want to know 'how good' their English is and I'd like to know your opinion on this question.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
Torsten
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Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Englishuser]

Hi Torsten,

I must say that I think many people want to compare their English proficiency with those of others, in particular many advanced learners are anxious to compare themselves with native speakers. If a test to measure if you're a native speaker of English or not, I think many people (read: advanced non-natives) would enroll themselves immediately, just out of curiosity. When it comes to existing tests and examinations like TOEFL and the Cambridge exams I think that most people take them only when forced to: first, they are expensive, second, who wants to receive an ego-cracking score? I also think that it's a bit unfair that native speakers of English can enter universities in English speaking countries without taking any language exam whatsoever: the fact that you're a native speaker doesn't mean that you have splendid abilities in the language. Non-natives, on the other hand, always have to struggle with tests that many natives find quite tough to say at least.

[Yankee]

Hi Englishuser

Are you under the impression that native speakers don't have to take any standardized tests for college/university entrance and/or that college entrance exams for native speakers don't have any language sections in them?

Amy

[Englishuser]

[Yankee]

Hi Englishuser

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of these standardized tests. But is there anything better?

I think you've got to admit there's at least a little bit of logic in requiring a test of English proficiency for people whose native language isn't English but who would like to study at a university in an English-speaking country. But I personally would be interested in seeing what would happen if non-native speakers were simply required to take the same entrance exams as native speakers.

The most obvious potential problem I can think of is the spoken aspect of English. (Sorry about using the "P-word", Torsten ) There are some non-native English speakers whose written English is quite good but whose pronunciation is so bad that they're hardly understandable. And I think that would be important. (On the other hand, I admit that I sometimes have trouble understanding people from certain parts of the "English-speaking world" even though I'm a native speaker of English. )

Amy

[Englishuser]

Amy,

Please find some comments below.

I think you've got to admit there's at least a little bit of logic in requiring a test of English proficiency for people whose native language isn't English but who would like to study at a university in an English-speaking country. But I personally would be interested in seeing what would happen if non-native speakers were simply required to take the same entrance exams as native speakers.

Yes, indeed it's quite logical, even paramount to test non-native speakers so as to make sure that a prospective student will actually manage it in an English-speaking environment (and at the university in particular).
What do you imply when you say that it'd be interesting to see how non-native speakers would manage native speakers' entrance exams?

The most obvious potential problem I can think of is the spoken aspect of English.

I couldn't agree more. But no oral part was included in the TOEFL until very recently (please correct me if I'm wrong).

[Yankee]

Hi Englishuser

[Torsten]

[Fan Of Arabian Horses]

Hi Amy, Torsten and Englishuser!

Although I don?t have any clue what will be tested in the several tests (TOEFL, BEC, Cambridge exam......) I?d like to intervene here, as one interesting point in Torsten?s topic seems to be the question whether anybody wants to compare his ?level of English? with the proficiency of others.

Of course, if you make a public English language test you can compare your knowledges with that of other persons considering the achieved marks. But another possibility to compare the knowledges you have is -for me more important as I don?t want to study at an English University- to communicate at this site, for example. Yes, I compare my own skills with that of many other users. Why not? Regardless from what I guess my own skills, it always helps me to improve my range of English. So, if I have doubts in the skills of the others I take my Grammar book or my dictionary and last but not least can I ask you, couldn?t I? I?m sure you give me the correct answer.

Anything else it were if I wanted to study at an English University. I think especially during the study there will occur complex and long sentences. They might be spoken quick and if one isn?t able to follow the speed in which these sentences will often be spoken he/ she isn?t able to understand the whole theme what such sentences will refer to. An English-native-speaker probably might be more capable to grasp the intrinsic sense -although he/she don?t know every single word- than a non-native-speaker.

Michael

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

The BEC certificate of course benefits the person who has achieved it in that the person has "concrete proof" of his or her Business English skills. It's definitely an asset for someone working in a global company or for someone who may be thinking of changing companies. A nice, positive addition to the resume/CV. And, as I'm sure you know, Germans tend to be very fond of having certificates of this kind.

I would say it's also valuable to companies who require excellent English skills. If a company wants to hire someone new or is thinking about moving someone into a new (more international) position, a BEC certificate is a pretty reliable indicator of the person's proficiency in "Business English".

I've done quite a number of BEC Higher preparation courses. BEC Higher is a "near native speaker" level. It's a tough exam and a tough course.

What I've found is that writing is often the weakest point for a majority of participants, so we do a lot of work on that. The listening comprehension part is also tough, but there are a variety of reasons for that. One difficulty is simply getting used to the test format. Practicing definitely helps there. But another difficulty is the test location itself. The test (in this area) takes place in a large room that is apparently full of echoes. At least that's the feedback I've gotten. So, that makes understanding that much harder. The people who do well despite all the echos have really achieved something special.

Not surprisingly, participants with little or no business experience (i.e., people fresh out of school) tend to have a harder time with the BEC courses than people already working. It's not just that they've had little contact with business topics in English, they simply have limited knowledge of business in general and would also have some difficulties in their native language. So, the BEC certificate also tends to reflect a general knowledge of the world of business to a degree, and not just English.

A lot of the people in my BEC courses don't ever take the BEC exam. They simply do the course to freshen up their English and to focus on business-related vocabulary and functions. They do the course because they need English regularly at work and simply want to improve.

Amy

[Spencer]

Hi guys,
I just would like to answer Torstens question:
I don't care how others speak at all.
I have my own opponent, it's myself actually, I like to be better than me.
I need other people to practice, but not for comparing myself. If I proved to be better, I wouldn't care, it would only mean that I chose a wrong level, I got to find people who better than me.
My favorite test is being with only natives, and not to feel like I'm not one of them.
Spencer