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#2 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 am Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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In English we normally don't use a comma before "that" when it is joining two clauses. Of course, if you have a series of subordinate clauses, the commas will start before the second in the series.
Anyway, the sentence you gave is punctuated incorrectly, and that comma should not be there. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 6552 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#3 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:43 am Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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| Tom wrote: |
Hello everybody
I was just wondering if a comma could be used before that or that's why . Is the given sentence correct keeping the comma in mind?
1- The real problem is that, I hardly know any people in that city.
I need a few examples of the same, please.
Thanks
Tom |
When it comes to relative clauses, you know there are two kinds: defining and no-defining RCs.
You should not use commas in DRC Have you got the money (that) I lent you yesterday? I saw the man who wants to buy our car.
You should place the NDRC between commas or after a comma if it goes at the end of the sentence. Peter, who I had seen earlier, wasn?t at the party. I have two sisters, who are living in New York at the moment.
Hope it helps
Tere |
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Tere I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 33 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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#4 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:53 am Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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Sure, Tere, but we use "which" in a nondefining relative clause, and not "that", so you won't usually (maybe ever) find a relative clause with "that" preceded by a comma.
The movie that I saw yesterday was great. (No commas, and you don't even need "that".) The movie, which I saw yesterday, was great. (Commas, and you can't use "that".) |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 6552 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#5 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 16:03 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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[quote="Jamie (K)"]Sure, Tere, but we use "which" in a nondefining relative clause, and not "that", quote]
Ooops...Did I say that...or use it wrongly in my examples? I don?t think so. What I said is quite right. You may claim it?s not complete because I didn?t mention the relative pronouns to be used in each case...but I just focused on the use of commas according to the type.
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so you won't usually (maybe ever) find a relative clause with "that" preceded by a comma.
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I can?t think of any possible correct idea following that pattern... No way |
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Tere I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 33 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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#6 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 17:11 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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What I want to know is why Tom asked about a comma 'before' the word that and then placed one after the word that in his example. :lol:
Is it possible (that) Tom wanted to confuse us? :lol:
(By the way, the above sentences are supposed to be examples of sentences not needing a comma.) :D
I've got to admit that my "comma-finger" doesn't always work properly in English on the first try anymore. Since coming to Germany and learning German, my "comma-finger" has gone "comma-crazy" on my keyboard. :D ;) :D
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#7 (permalink) Tue Jun 13, 2006 19:47 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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Thank you, everybody.
No, I did not want to confuse anybody, :D ...it is only that I read a sentence in a novel a few days back( By the way I have lost it and furiously looking for it) in which the author wrote a long sentence and it came this way:
" ..., that's why..."
or this way:
" ...; that's why..."
Thanks again Tom |
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Tom I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 2103
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#8 (permalink) Fri Nov 26, 2010 20:42 pm Hey every body! |
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I have the similar matter now. "The ladies were so much engrossed with counting the kisses, that all might go on fairly, that they did not perceive the Emperor."
Is there anyone who can help me get out of this trouble. A lot of thanks. |
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Anhminh1232002 I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 Posts: 161
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#9 (permalink) Fri Nov 26, 2010 22:10 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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'The ladies were so engrossed with counting the kisses that they did not perceive the Emperor' is the main point of that sentence.
'that all might go on fairly' provides additional information, which can be left out of the sentence without changing the main meaning. The pair of commas separates the additional information from the rest of the sentence. _________________ Cheers m' dears! |
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Beeesneees Language Coach

Joined: 08 Apr 2010 Posts: 18776 Location: UK, born and bred
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#10 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:56 am Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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| Another great explanation by Bee, who, as a nitpicker would say, did not use a comma before "which"... but please blame my enthusiasm on the beer. I really do envy Bee's way of explaining things. |
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Cerberus™ I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 1342
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#11 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:50 am Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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There you go Cerberus... just for you. You can also blame the omission on the beer if you like, though the truth would be that I always feel as if I am playing catch-up on the posts on this site and therefore type so much in haste.
For what it's worth, I think your explanations are very clear. _________________ Cheers m' dears! |
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Beeesneees Language Coach

Joined: 08 Apr 2010 Posts: 18776 Location: UK, born and bred
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#12 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:27 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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Please activate Javascript in your browser to listen to this audio recording | 25 Listened |
Hi,
If I may intrude. I'm not quite sure what the reference to commas and omission are all about but I do know that there is something awry with the sentence:
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| The ladies were so much engrossed with counting the kisses, that all might go on fairly, that they did not perceive the Emperor. |
(1) There is confusion over the use of 'that' twice because on first reading it's not clear whether this is the other half of 'so ....' or whether it is a relative pronoun.
(2) If it's meant to be a relative pronoun after 'kisses', you can't precede it with a comma.
(3) A solution is to use 'which' as a non-defining relative pronoun as follows:
The ladies were so much engrossed with counting the kisses, which all might go on fairly, that they did not perceive the Emperor.
In that way the error of using a comma before 'that' is removed and the sentence becomes clearer since 'which' is obviously not the other half of 'so ....'.
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Present Simple |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 13890 Location: UK
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#13 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 13:10 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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Any strangeness is down to the age and source (non British, translated) of the text rather than the original poster's fault. Other than the fact that he has punctuated his quote in such a way that it appears to be a complete sentence, he has provided a direct quote from "The Swineherd" by Hans Christian Andersen. In the original context, the meaning is quite clear.
The titular character has demanded 100 kisses of the Princess in exchange for a musical instrument. However, the agreement is reached that he may take ten kisses from the Princess herself, and the rest from 9 ladies of the court, ten kisses each.
"What can be the reason for such a crowd close by the pigsty?" said the Emperor, who happened just then to step out on the balcony; he rubbed his eyes, and put on his spectacles. "They are the ladies of the court; I must go down and see what they are about!" So he pulled up his slippers at the heel, for he had trodden them down.
As soon as he had got into the court-yard, he moved very softly, and the ladies were so much engrossed with counting the kisses, that all might go on fairly, that they did not perceive the Emperor. He rose on his tiptoes.
"What is all this?" said he, when he saw what was going on, and he boxed the Princess's ears with his slipper, just as the swineherd was taking the eighty-sixth kiss. "March out!" said the Emperor, for he was very angry; and both Princess and swineherd were thrust out of the city. _________________ Cheers m' dears! |
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Beeesneees Language Coach

Joined: 08 Apr 2010 Posts: 18776 Location: UK, born and bred
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#14 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 21:16 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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Hi,
The question still remains - what is the meaning of the first 'that' and what is its grammatical function?
Alan _________________ English as a Foreign Language You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 13890 Location: UK
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#15 (permalink) Sat Nov 27, 2010 23:30 pm Comma could be used before that or that's: why? |
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It's a familiar structure to me, but my mother brought me up on such stories.
...(so) that all (the kisses) might go on (would be distributed) fairly... _________________ Cheers m' dears! |
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Beeesneees Language Coach

Joined: 08 Apr 2010 Posts: 18776 Location: UK, born and bred
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| the house was built on a slight rise just on the edge of a village | what is it mean? |