|
|
 #77 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 21:31 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
Exhibit A: Molly is unable to understand what a phrase means in context, unless the context is explained:
| Molly wrote: | And what on earth does he mean by "Context tells me..."? A mystery, until he tells us just what it is about the context that leads him to that conclusion.
|
Exhibit B: Molly is unable to understand what a phrase means out of context, unless the context is provided:
| Molly wrote: | It can mean many things. Can you give us an example in context?
|
To revisit the passage in question:
| Quote: | "We believe that a complicate pricing mechanism may not only increase the computational network overheads but may also suffer from the complexities of its implementation."
|
Now surely, if you think there is no difference in likelihood between "complicated" and "complicate", in that example, you have yourself found a context in which "complicated" can be understood as a typo.
Otherwise, of course, you would say that "complicate" was the only possible choice.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #78 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 22:10 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| lost_soul wrote: | | Modalized arrogance .... Hmmm what on earth is that ? :? :lol: Sorry for my non-native ignorance :) |
Alas, Alex, that was only the first step in my attempt to clarify M's unmodalized statement. I hadn't actually reached the 'clear understanding' stage yet, I'm afraid. As a follow-up question, I had planned to ask whether unmodalized nonnative arrogance was easier to accept.
It does seem possible to me, however, that arrogance can be exhibited both with and without modals, by natives and nonnatives alike.
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8325
Location: USA
|
 |
| #79 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 23:25 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Quote: | | Now surely, if you think there is no difference in likelihood between "complicated" and "complicate", in that example, you have yourself found a context in which "complicated" can be understood as a typo. |
Must have taken him all night to think up that one.
This reminds me of the film "Let him have it!. Mr P would conclude that the likelihood of the boy telling his friend to give up his gun to police is highly unlikely. LOL! Writers everywhere be aware, Mr P will turn you all into Derek Bentleys.
---
What did finally happen to all those other typos Mr P-astor found? No show? :P |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
| #80 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 0:01 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
So, I guess we can conclude that Mr P now thinks that "complicate" could possibly go in the slot below if the writer then marks it "in some way – either with an explanation, or a "sic", or inverted commas.".
"_______ application procedures have resulted in a drop in interest in our investment and other financial services packages."
Wow! It took a long time, but we got there in the end. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
| #81 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 0:58 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | Now surely, if you think there is no difference in likelihood between "complicated" and "complicate", in that example, you have yourself found a context in which "complicated" can be understood as a typo. |
Must have taken him all night to think up that one.
|
From which I conclude that you concede the point.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #82 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:11 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | So, I guess we can conclude that Mr P now thinks that "complicate" could possibly go in the slot below if the writer then marks it "in some way – either with an explanation, or a "sic", or inverted commas.".
"_______ application procedures have resulted in a drop in interest in our investment and other financial services packages."
|
If the writer puts "complicate" in inverted commas, and puts a note in parentheses to say "by which I mean folded longitudinally, as the wings of certain insects", or even "complicate, of course, in the sense of the word as used by Isaac Watts and Edward Young", yes, I'll agree that "complicate" was intended.
| Molly wrote: | Wow! It took a long time, but we got there in the end.
|
It's the other way round, old chap. See my earlier post, on page 2:
| MrPedantic wrote: | Thus although "complicate" is not technically impossible in your context (perhaps as a bizarre metaphor), it is inappropriate, in comparison with "complicated" (the "natural" choice; as the advertisers might say).
|
It seems you've inadvertently agreed with me.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #83 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:12 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Quote: | | If the writer puts "complicate" in inverted commas, and puts a note in parentheses to say "by which I mean folded longitudinally, as the wings of certain insects", or even "complicate, of course, in the sense of the word as used by Isaac Watts and Edward Young", yes, I'll agree that "complicate" was intended. |
Personally, I don't have a problem with "complicate" above, or in the other examples I posted, with or without "footnotes", etc.
| Quote: | Molly wrote:
Thus although "complicate" is not technically impossible in your context (perhaps as a bizarre metaphor), it is inappropriate, in comparison with "complicated" (the "natural" choice; as the advertisers might say). |
Where did I write that?
Great! Moving on to newer threads? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
| #84 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 23:28 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | Where did I write that?
|
You must pay more attention to context:
| Molly wrote: | See my earlier post, on page 2:
|
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #85 (permalink) Thu Jun 05, 2008 23:32 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
Mr P shouldn't edit post dishonestly.
Yesterday:
| Quote: | Molly wrote:
Thus although "complicate" is not technically impossible in your context (perhaps as a bizarre metaphor), it is inappropriate, in comparison with "complicated" (the "natural" choice; as the advertisers might say). |
Today.
| Quote: | MrPedantic wrote:
Thus although "complicate" is not technically impossible in your context (perhaps as a bizarre metaphor), it is inappropriate, in comparison with "complicated" (the "natural" choice; as the advertisers might say). |
|
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
| #86 (permalink) Fri Jun 06, 2008 0:21 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Mr P shouldn't edit post dishonestly. |
You must pay more attention to context:
| Molly wrote: | See my earlier post, on page 2:
|
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #87 (permalink) Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:09 am complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | Shame he didn't treat us to the other "typos" he found in that text.
|
Since you insist – a collection of typos and editing errors from that text:
| Quote: | p162 where some users take unreasonable large shares
p162 moreover, most of to date research only focuses on the theoretical design for pricing schemes, while offers limited discussions on their practical implementations.
p165 This is to ensure lower dropping possibilities for the higher priority packets, which conforms to our design goal: those who willing to pay more should enjoy a better service.
p167 The pricing ceiling can make the aggressive users to control their behaviours
p171 Therefore we believe that making the users to choose their own service allocations...
|
And from elsewhere in the same volume:
| Quote: | p173 The Figure 1 shows this conventional model
p181 This is because ingress node arranges packet order...but core node just guarantees...
|
All these errors indicate that the volume as a whole was not thoroughly proof-read.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #88 (permalink) Sun Jun 08, 2008 18:42 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Quote: | | Since you insist – a collection of typos and editing errors from that text: |
Took time in coming , but...
Now, how do those typos guarantee that "complicate" is a typo in that text? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
| #89 (permalink) Sun Jun 08, 2008 23:06 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
It works like this:
1. Deductive method (you are unaware that "complicate" is an adjective)
• In "complicate pricing mechanism", "complicate" has the function of an adjective.
• "Complicate" is not an adjective, but "complicated" is.
• "Complicated" fits the sense.
• "Complicate" is therefore an error for "complicated".
2. Inductive method (you are aware that "complicate" is an adjective)
• In "complicate pricing mechanism", "complicate" has the function of an adjective.
• "Complicate" (non-biological adj.) is rare; "complicated" (adj.) is common.
• • The contrast is with a "simple" pricing mechanism.
• • Awareness of "complicate" (non-biological adj.) implies a sophisticated awareness of English usage on the author's part.
• • • There are typos and grammatical errors elsewhere in the text.
• • • The text is not sophisticated.
• "Complicate" is therefore an error for "complicated".
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
|
|
| #90 (permalink) Sun Jun 08, 2008 23:12 pm complicate vs. complicated |
|
|
| Quote: | 1. Deductive method (you are unaware that "complicate" is an adjective)
• In "complicate pricing mechanism", "complicate" has the function of an adjective.
• "Complicate" is not an adjective, but "complicated" is.
• "Complicated" fits the sense.
• "Complicate" is therefore an error for "complicated". |
Hm, that could say to one:
The deducer has limited knowledge of "complicate" in context.
The deducer is known for his prescriptionist approach to language use.
The deducer is determined not to be outdone by anyone.
The deducer is wrong. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
|
|
|
| "Walking on the footpath" vs "Walking along the footpath" | I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. |
