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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.


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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #1 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:23 am   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Could you show me the difference in meaning?

I've drunk two cups of tea this morning.
I drank two cups of tea this morning.
Sultano
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #2 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:01 am   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

I've drunk two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it during the morning.
I drank two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it, say, in the afternoon.
Haihao
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #3 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:06 am   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Quote:
I drank two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it, say, in the afternoon.

Wouldn't AmEng speakers be able to use that during the morning?
Molly
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #4 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 15:27 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Molly wrote:
Quote:
I drank two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it, say, in the afternoon.

Wouldn't AmEng speakers be able to use that during morning?
Surely you're not suggesting that a speaker of BE couldn't. I mean, that would be overly generalized and prescriptive, wouldn't it, Molly. :wink:

Hi Sultano and Haihao
Whether a person uses the simple past or the present perfect often depends simply on the speaker's point of view and/or other things the speaker may have in mind but doesn't specifically state. So, yes, an American might say "I had two cups of coffee this morning". However, I don't see why BE speakers wouldn't possibly use the simple past during that same morning as well. It would also be normal for someone to say "I've had two cups of coffee this morning."

The decision to use the simple past rather than the present perfect may simply reflect the speaker's point of view that 'today's consumption of coffee is completely finished' and/or 'drinking any further cups of coffee is now completely out of the question' -- even though it might still be the same morning.

The speaker might also be thinking about a specific time frame in the morning which is now past. For example, imagine that someone is in the habit of drinking coffee only before leaving for work (let's say between 7 and 8 a.m.). When, at 11 a.m., he or she remarks "I had two cups of coffee this morning", that person may well be saying it from this point of view: "I had two cups of coffee (before I came to work) this morning." The specific past time may not be mentioned, but may well be in the speaker's mind -- thus triggering the use of the simple past tense.
.
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Yankee
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #5 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 16:59 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Quote:
Surely you're not suggesting that a speaker of BE couldn't. I mean, that would be overly generalized and prescriptive, wouldn't it, Molly.

Yes, it might be. Would you then say that both AmEng speakers and BrEng do use "I drank two cups of tea this morning" in the morning - in both cases of "morning" being objective or subjective in the mind of the speaker?

And would you say this reply is "overly generalized and prescriptive"?

Quote:
I've drunk two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it during the morning.
I drank two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it, say, in the afternoon.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #6 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 21:26 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Yankee wrote:
The speaker might also be thinking about a specific time frame in the morning which is now past.
.

When I was a student at university, I read a book which explained the difference between the present perfect and the past simple this way:
If you want to describe a chain of events happened one after another, then you're better off with the past simple. For instance, I turned out, took a shower, drank 2 cups of strong coffee, had a snack and left for work.
So, your explanation fits the one suggested by the book.
Lost_Soul
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #7 (permalink) Mon Jun 09, 2008 21:34 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Quote:
So, your explanation fits the one suggested by the book.

It fits the explanation of many uses of the aspects. Nothing new.
Molly
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #8 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:56 am   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Molly wrote:
Quote:
I drank two cups of tea this morning: the speaker said it, say, in the afternoon.

Wouldn't AmEng speakers be able to use that during the morning?

Molly wrote:
It fits the explanation of many uses of the aspects. Nothing new.
Nope, nothing new. However, your first question suggests that this thread has now provided you with some new information about the use of the simple past vs the present perfect. :wink:
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Yankee
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #9 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:01 am   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Yankee wrote:
Nope, nothing new. However, your first question suggests that this thread has now provided you with some new information about the use of the simple past vs the present perfect. :wink:
.

You have heard the word "rhetorical", have you? Go back to my posts of months ago when I mentioned a situation around "I had a hard day" and "I've had a hard day". There I show that the use of either can sometimes depend on the subjective view of the speaker. Ain't nothing 'bout the present perfect that you can teach me, gal.

Now, getting away from what is possible to what is real, I ask again: Would you then say that both AmEng speakers and BrEng do use "I drank two cups of tea this morning" in the morning - in both cases of "morning" being objective or subjective in the mind of the speaker?
Molly
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #10 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:19 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Molly wrote:
Go back to my posts of months ago when I mentioned a situation around "I had a hard day" and "I've had a hard day".
Hmmm... Since when does roughly 14 days ago qualify as "months ago"? :?

Molly wrote:
Ain't nothing 'bout the present perfect that you can teach me, gal.
Hmmmm... Would you by any chance call that last statement "categorical"?
.
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Yankee
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #11 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:31 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Yankee wrote:
Hmmm... Since when does roughly 14 days ago qualify as "months ago"? :?

Sorry?

Molly wrote:
Hmmmm... Would you by any chance call that last statement "categorical"?
.

Absolutely!

Would you say you're avoiding this queston?

Quote:
Would you then say that both AmEng speakers and BrEng do use "I drank two cups of tea this morning" in the morning - in both cases of "morning" being objective or subjective in the mind of the speaker?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn #12 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 13:03 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morn
 

Molly wrote:
Would you say you're avoiding this queston?

No, I wouldn't. I just don't see the point in answering such a poorly phrased question. Not only do you seem to want a simple yes/no answer, but you don't seem to have read or digested what I've already written.

If what you really want to know is whether or not I've heard (first hand) any speakers of British English say the equivalent of "I drank two cups of tea this morning" (when the morning in question was not yet finished), then my answer is yes.
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Yankee
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #13 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 13:12 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Quote:
If what you really want to know is whether or not I've heard (first hand) any speakers of British English say the equivalent of "I drank two cups of tea this morning" (when the morning in question was not yet finished), then my answer is yes.

Now that didn't hurt, did it? Good girl. Well done!
Molly
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #14 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 14:43 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Molly wrote:
Now that didn't hurt, did it?
For a prescriptivist who categorizes sentences such as "Did you eat yet" as a "misuse of the present perfect" (I have yet to figure out where the present perfect actually IS in that sentence, by the way), I imagine that reality is often painful. :wink:
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Yankee
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I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. #15 (permalink) Tue Jun 10, 2008 14:56 pm   I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning.
 

Yankee wrote:
For a prescriptivist who categorizes sentences such as "Did you eat yet" as a "misuse of the present perfect" (I have yet to figure out where the present perfect actually IS in that sentence, by the way),

On which variant are we focusing at this moment? One can misuse/abuse the present perfect by replacing it with the past simple.
Molly
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