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#2 (permalink) Thu Feb 02, 2006 18:31 pm Had seen |
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Hi Gella,
The best way I can explain this is by saying that the refusing to go (the non going if you like) was after the seeing. His actual words were: I refuse to go until I have seen and this converts in reported speech as: He refused to go until he had seen. Another way is to say: He didn't go until he had seen ..
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Present Simple |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 17284 Location: UK
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#3 (permalink) Tue Aug 10, 2010 16:01 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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Dear teachers,
Can I say "He refused to go until he saw all the paintings." Thanks in advance.
Aiken _________________ Man proposes; God disposes |
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Aiken I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 02 Jun 2010 Posts: 225
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#4 (permalink) Tue Aug 10, 2010 16:43 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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Hi Aiken,
'Saw' and 'had seen' would both work here.
Alan _________________ English as a Foreign Language You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 17284 Location: UK
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#5 (permalink) Mon May 30, 2011 14:51 pm Re: Had seen |
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Alan wrote: | Hi Gella,
The best way I can explain this is by saying that the refusing to go (the non going if you like) was after the seeing. His actual words were: I refuse to go until I have seen and this converts in reported speech as: He refused to go until he had seen. Another way is to say: He didn't go until he had seen ..
Alan |
Good explanation Alan! |
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Maddy I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 Posts: 109 Location: Italy
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#6 (permalink) Mon May 30, 2011 15:18 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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Hi Maddy,
Glad you liked it!
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Passive Voice |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 17284 Location: UK
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#7 (permalink) Mon May 30, 2011 15:18 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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Hi Maddy,
Glad you liked it!
Alan _________________ English as a Foreign Language You can read my EFL story Prepositions |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 17284 Location: UK
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#8 (permalink) Tue Sep 27, 2011 14:48 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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The Past Perfect can be use with till/until and before to emphasize the complection or expected complection of an action. For till/untill the simple past action may precede the past perfect action. So can it be that: first he refused to go, and later saw all the paintings? I think so. But Mr Alan said completely different/opposite, so how to differ which action was the first and the second?
many,many thanks |
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Saneta I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 1583
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#9 (permalink) Tue Sep 27, 2011 14:49 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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The Past Perfect can be use with till/until and before to emphasize the complection or expected complection of an action. For till/untill the simple past action may precede the past perfect action. So can it be that: first he refused to go, and later saw all the paintings? I think so. But Mr Alan said completely different/opposite, so how to differ which action was the first and the second?
many,many thanks |
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Saneta I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 1583
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#10 (permalink) Tue Sep 27, 2011 14:51 pm until he had seen vs. until he saw |
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The Past Perfect can be used with till/until and before to emphasize the complection or expected complection of an action. For till/untill the simple past action may precede the past perfect action. So can it be that: first he refused to go, and later saw all the paintings? I think so. But Mr Alan said completely different/opposite, so how to differ which action was the first and the second?
many,many thanks |
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Saneta I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 1583
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I honestly couldn't follow a word you were saying | What does this phrase mean: "even steven"? |