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Do you read a newspaper?


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Do you read a newspaper? #31 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 13:24 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Torsten wrote:
I've just found this which might interesting to native speakers of English:

Respect the fact that Ukraine is an independent nation. You may find that people here are sensitive about being grouped as "Russians". The Ukrainians have their own ethnicity and do not like being seen as Russians.

Don't say "the Ukraine," because that usage is outdated and implies that Ukraine is a region and not a country. Also, the official spelling of the capital of Ukraine in English is Kyiv and not Kiev, the old Russian version.


TOEIC listening, question-response: Should we go to Disneyland or Disneyworld?

In many languages, city and country names are spelled differently than the original native names. Warsaw in English is Warschau in German. The native name is Warszawa. The native German München is Munich in English. The ü is not available in many other languages. How can we expect people of other countries to spell Munich as München and Kiev as Kyiv just because it's the original, native spelling? Often, such names are too strange and too difficult (for non-natives) and do not "fit" into a language . . . if that makes any sense, lol.

Claudia
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Do you read a newspaper? #32 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 14:44 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Hello Claudia,

Most times I agree with you. Excuse me but now not.
Now I agreed with your first sentence:
"In many languages, city and country names are spelled differently than the original native names. "
I think here Torsten spoke about another thing. Those people understand this better who couldn't live in independence. To regain the possession of independence goes together lot of change. The name of towns, streets, squares etc. had been changed or will be changed. In our country this happened also.

Ukraine has an own language but they couldn't use it. The children went to Russian schools. As Ukraine our neighbour country I know some Ukrainians.

If Ukraine has an own language the question is whether the name of its capital will be the Russian Kiev or Ukrainian Kiyv.( If it is difficult to pronounce for foreigner people they say kai-iv etc. don't they?)

Have a good week-end:
Kati
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Do you read a newspaper? #33 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 16:14 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Wales has its own language. For many years around the turn of the 20th Century and beyond, it was banned from use in schools and English had to be spoken.

Now most Welsh placenames have different English equivalents. People are generally welcome to use either.
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Do you read a newspaper? #34 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 16:29 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Kati Svaby wrote:
Hello Claudia,

Most times I agree with you. Excuse me but now not.
Now I agreed with your first sentence:
"In many languages, city and country names are spelled differently than the original native names. "
I think here Torsten spoke about another thing. Those people understand this better who couldn't live in independence. To regain the possession of independence goes together lot of change. The name of towns, streets, squares etc. had been changed or will be changed. In our country this happened also.

Ukraine has an own language but they couldn't use it. The children went to Russian schools. As Ukraine our neighbour country I know some Ukrainians.

If Ukraine has an own language the question is whether the name of its capital will be the Russian Kiev or Ukrainian Kiyv.( If it is difficult to pronounce for foreigner people they say kai-iv etc. don't they?)


I see your point, Kati, and I really understand that. I think Ukrainians should refer to their cities and towns in their own tongue; they definitely should speak Ukrainian and have it as their official language. No doubt about it!

Unfortunately, for non-Ukrainians, the Russian Kiev is much more easy to write and memorize than the Ukrainian Kyiv. People will spell it Kiyv, Kyvi, Kyyv, Kivy, Kiwi . . . because it just doesn't fit into the structure of their own language. I have yet to receive mail where my last name is spelled correctly. I read Kakulka, Kuklka, Kulka, Kukulla and Kulla on the envelopes, but not a single correct Kukulka. To me, my last name is as easy to remember as to an Ukrainian "Kyiv". So, if Google says: "Showing results for Kiev instead of your typed Kyiv, or when the National Enquirer writes to its readers that John Travolta traveled with his spaceship to Nibiru but had to make a stopover in Kiev because of technical difficulties, then bless their little, ignorant hearts, for they believe in aliens!

If it were up to me, I'd spell it Kiäff. ;-)

Kati Svaby wrote:
Have a good week-end:
Kati

You too! :-)

Claudia
Cgk
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 1716
Location: Franconia, Germany, Illinois, USA

Do you read a newspaper? #35 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 20:14 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Hello Bez,

Can I ask you how old is the democracy in the U.K ?
Here in Europe there is a saying in the countries where after the WW II the democracy came to an end or after 1990 began to born. In these countries say:
"For create at one stroke a perfect democracy it needs same regular maintenance as for create the English good lawn."- I tried to translate.

What you wrote about Wales that it was banned their own language in schools till the turn of the 20th Century. I believe of course but I am shocked to hear that. I think we agree in that it can't repeat itself anywhere.

In more detail:
Participation and Democracy East and West: Comparisons and ... - A Goo
"A developed civil society, then, is not as such conducive to democracy. ... of democracy sees stable democracy in analogy to a good English lawn"
http://books.google.hu/books?id=AUNWA2-DpVkC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=democracy+and+English+lawn&source=bl&ots=dwd_Zy0NrR&sig=cUm2J3tJpfuN2tN-GPdFGa1Dwe4&hl

Regards:
Kati Svaby
_________________
Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
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Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 6286
Location: Hungary

Do you read a newspaper? #36 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 20:55 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Hello Claudia,

The important that you agree with me what could mean the independence for a country!
For me it is a miracle that after lot of foreigner domination they can retain their language.

The rest is of no importance.

Take care:
Kati
_________________
Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
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Posts: 6286
Location: Hungary

Do you read a newspaper? #37 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 21:37 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

I do, It is like addiction. Like everyone else in my youth I found newspaper really boring, but sometimes with morning coffe I throw a few looks at them. Day after day, and now it's a habit.
Newspaper can be educational, but on the other hand it is just waste of the time..
B3l1
I'm here quite often ;-)


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Do you read a newspaper? #38 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 23:08 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

About the censorship an interesting note:

"But even religious materials have been subject to censorship. For example, various scriptures have been banned (and sometimes burned at several points in history). The Bible, and other religious scriptures have all been subjected to censorship and have been banned by various governments. Similarly, books based on the scriptures have also been banned, such as Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God Is Within You, which was banned in the Russian Empire for being anti-establishment."

I didn' t read this book unfortunatly, but I agree with this title. So i will read it soon.

Kati Svaby
_________________
Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
Kati Svaby
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Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 6286
Location: Hungary

Do you read a newspaper? #39 (permalink) Sat Jan 28, 2012 23:15 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

About The Kingdom of God is within you.

[edit]Reasoning

The title of the book is taken from Luke 17:21. In the book Tolstoy speaks of the principle of non-violent resistance when confronted by violence, as taught by Jesus (see Christian pacifism). Tolstoy sought to separate Orthodox Russian Christianity (which was merged with the state) from what he believed was the true gospel of Jesus Christ specifically the Sermon on the Mount.
Tolstoy takes the viewpoint that all governments who wage war are an affront to Christian principles. When Christ says to turn the other cheek, Tolstoy asserts that he means simply that and rejects the interpretations of Roman and medieval scholars who attempted to limit its scope, writing:
“How can you kill people, when it is written in God’s commandment: ‘Thou shalt not murder’?”
Tolstoy presented excerpts from magazines and newspapers relating various personal experiences, and gave keen insight into the history of non-resistance as being professed by a minority of believers from the very foundation of Christianity. In particular, he confronts those who argue that such a change to a non-violent society would be disastrous with the following recourse:
“That this social order with its pauperism, famines, prisons, gallows, armies, and wars is necessary to society; that still greater disaster would ensue if this organization were destroyed; all this is said only by those who profit by this organization, while those who suffer from it – and they are ten times as numerous – think and say quite the contrary.”
Tolstoy recounted challenges by people of all classes that his views on non-resistance were wrong, but argued that no matter how the challengers tried to attack the doctrine, its essence could not be overcome. He advocated non-violence as a solution to nationalist woes and as a means for seeing the hypocrisy of the church. In reading Jesus' words in the Gospels, Tolstoy notes that the modern church is a heretical creation:
“Nowhere nor in anything, except in the assertion of the Church, can we find that God or Christ founded anything like what churchmen understand by the Church.”
_________________
Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
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Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 6286
Location: Hungary

Do you read a newspaper? #40 (permalink) Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:08 am   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Kati Svaby wrote:
What you wrote about Wales that it was banned their own language in schools till the turn of the 20th Century. I believe of course but I am shocked to hear that. I think we agree in that it can't repeat itself anywhere.

In 1846, a parliamentary report was commissioned on the role of Welsh in education. One of the problems was that the report was produced by three English barristers who didn't speak a word of Welsh.

The report was published in 1847 and almost caused a riot (particularly the inclusion of passages in which the commissioners went beyond what they should have been reporting on and made disparaging remarks about the morals of the Welsh.)

Predictably, given the views of the writers, the report found the provision of education in Wales to be extremely poor. The commissioners saw the Welsh language as a drawback and noted that the moral and material condition of the people would only improve with the introduction of English.

The speaking of Welsh in schools wasn't totally prevented by law, but neither was it given any government support or recognition. Welsh was not an institutionalised or official language, and Welsh simply wasn't considered a suitable medium for education during the Victorian heyday of the British Empire.
In this era, convention had practically the same force as law. English was deemed by convention, and with popular support, to be the only appropriate medium for learning.

From the BBC programme "A History of the World"
In order to improve pupils' knowledge of the English language, the Welsh education system of the late 19th century employed the 'Welsh Not' or 'Welsh Stick' as a method of discouraging children from speaking in their native tongue. This small piece of wood was given in turn to individuals overheard talking Welsh, and whoever was wearing it by the end of the week was often severely punished.

Two Welsh Not signs:

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Do you read a newspaper? #41 (permalink) Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:43 am   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Dear Bez,

Many thanks for your very interesting account. Which set me thinking this:

Quote:
In 1846, a parliamentary report was commissioned on the role of Welsh in education. One of the problems was that the report was produced by three English barristers who didn't speak a word of Welsh.

The report was published in 1847 and almost caused a riot (particularly the inclusion of passages in which the commissioners went beyond what they should have been reporting on and made disparaging remarks about the morals of the Welsh.)

Why? Because three English barristers's report about the role of Welsh in education- who didn't speak a word of Welsh - in consequence the provision of education had been given by the commissioners -who judged the Welsh language as a drawback -to those who improve this situation with the Introduction of English education. This has occurred to me: Franz Kafka : The Castle novel.

Quote:
"The castle is the ultimate bureaucracy with copious paperwork that the bureaucracy maintains is "flawless". The flawlessness is of course, a lie; it is a flaw in the paperwork that has brought K. to the village."


K is the protagonist of the novel.

It's true that I read it 40 years ago, I remember only its absurdity.

The absurdity of the two stories is similar.

Many thanks for it.
Regards:
Kati
_________________
Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
Kati Svaby
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 6286
Location: Hungary

Do you read a newspaper? #42 (permalink) Sun Jan 29, 2012 13:35 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

B3l1 wrote:
I found newspaper really boring

Yes, I agree with you: newspapers ARE boring. (And I, too, just read the headlines and throw it away.) They are boring BECAUSE they are afraid to tell the truth. They are afraid of powerful politicians, companies, and groups of people.
James M
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Do you read a newspaper? #43 (permalink) Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:52 am   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Exactly, and sometimes medias doesn't have anything interesting to present so they are writing about some singers new clothes, I mean what!?
We had a case in my country where one television was really realistic, they wasn't scared of politicians, companies or some other organisations. They were exposing everything.. but two months later they sold their firm and now it's a regular boring channel like almost every other. They were actually forced to shut down or sell their company, buy no one else but country itself.. :|
B3l1
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Do you read a newspaper? #44 (permalink) Fri Mar 23, 2012 16:27 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

DO YOU READ A NEWSPAPER ?

This is a nice discussion in my opinion.

Fist af all,I would like to specify that I live in Turkey.

The turkish press has had problems occasionally about freedom of press by

Turkish authorities.

However,Turkey has freedom of press generally.Moreover, The city where I live

has a lot of national newspapers although existence of internet.

But, I take care of not reading newspaper.Because there are negative news on

papers many times.

And this affects me negatively. ( because I am a responsive citizen. )

Anyway,I can learn these negative news from other people in my country.

İn conculusion,The Turkish press has freedom although to obstacles and

I live in a nice country : ) Thank you.
Umutejder
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Do you read a newspaper? #45 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2012 17:03 pm   Do you read a newspaper?
 

Thank you for your answer. Yes, I have read that some newspapers in your country are having "problems." But it seems that Turkey has more freedom of the press than in many other neighboring countries.
James M
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 15 May 2011
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