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Usage of "Who all"


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Usage of "Who all" #1 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:17 am   Usage of "Who all"
 

I heard this expression "Who all" being used in Indian English a lot.

For example, please look at the sentences below

"Who all are coming to the party?"
"Who all want to come to movies with me?"

Is such a usage correct? Please clarify.
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Usage of "Who all" #2 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:44 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

This is colloquial usage that is also characteristic of southern US dialects. I would say it's nonstandard, but not bad enough to make someone sound ignorant of the language.
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Usage of "Who all" #3 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:54 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

daemon99 wrote:
I heard this expression "Who all" being used in Indian English a lot.

For example, please look at the sentences below

"Who all are coming to the party?"
"Who all want to come to movies with me?"

Is such a usage correct? Please clarify.

Why shouldn't it be correct? If many IndEng speakers use it commonly, of course it's correct - in Indian English, that is.

Would you call these IndEng examples incorrect?

I am understanding it.
She is knowing the answer
Molly
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Usage of "Who all" #4 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:55 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Jamie (K) wrote:
This is colloquial usage that is also characteristic of southern US dialects. I would say it's nonstandard, but not bad enough to make someone sound ignorant of the language.

Why do you associate the word "nonstandard" with "bad"? Did you mean to write "substandard"?
Molly
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Usage of "Who all" #5 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:36 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Molly wrote:
Why shouldn't it be correct? If many IndEng speakers use it commonly, of course it's correct - in Indian English, that is.

Oh, here we go again.

People in India can talk any way they want. They can replace every form of tag question with a single "is it?" if they want. They can change the past tense of "go" from "went" to "was go" if they want. They can use such deviant pronunciation that no native speaker can understand them, if they want. They can do all kinds of things to the English language in India if they want to, but if their goal is clear communication in an international context, then they have to drop all those eccentricities and adhere to the general standard. Positively reinforcing all those Indianisms just intensifies their misery when they have to use English with people abroad. Indians are famous among native English speakers and foreigners living in English-speaking countries for being next to impossible to understand at times, and I know plenty of Mexicans and Germans who would prefer that their Indian colleagues had learned "real" English.

Molly wrote:
Would you call these IndEng examples incorrect?

I am understanding it.
She is knowing the answer

Yes. Those two stative verbs are not used in continuous tenses. When "to know" is used in the continuous, it sounds like knowing "in the Biblical sense" (i.e., an action), so it can sound like the person is having sex with the answer.
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Usage of "Who all" #6 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:39 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Molly wrote:
Jamie (K) wrote:
This is colloquial usage that is also characteristic of southern US dialects. I would say it's nonstandard, but not bad enough to make someone sound ignorant of the language.

Why do you associate the word "nonstandard" with "bad"? Did you mean to write "substandard"?

Did I write "substandard", or did I write "nonstandard"? Do you think I don't know my own language?

You have got to be a beginning student in a linguistics department somewhere. That would be the most probable reason you'd be moralizing with me like that and are willing to accept any nonstandard usage without regard for the communicative outcome for the speaker.
Jamie (K)
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Usage of "Who all" #7 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:43 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

I've known that some verbs like 'love', 'know', 'understand' are not supposed to be used in progressive forms, unless they are not used in their general sense.
(Please correct me if I am wrong)

But I saw this caption somewhere --'I'm loving it'.

Is it correct to say so?
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Usage of "Who all" #8 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:48 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

daemon99 wrote:
I've known that some verbs like 'love', 'know', 'understand' are not supposed to be used in progressive forms, unless they are not used in their general sense.
(Please correct me if I am wrong)

You're right.

daemon99 wrote:
But I saw this caption somewhere --'I'm loving it'.

Is it correct to say so?

Technically, it's not correct. It's slang that means, "I find this experience temporarily extremely pleasurable."
Jamie (K)
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Usage of "Who all" #9 (permalink) Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:50 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

'temporarily extremely pleasurable'... Good one :-)
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Usage of "Who all" #10 (permalink) Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:41 am   Usage of "Who all"
 

And what does "who all" in that sentence mean? What's thr difference between the two usage ""Who all are coming to the party?" and "Who are coming to the party?"
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Usage of "Who all" #11 (permalink) Sat Mar 08, 2008 13:10 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

nessie wrote:
And what does "who all" in that sentence mean? What's thr difference between the two usage ""Who all are coming to the party?" and "Who are coming to the party?"

"Who are coming to the party?" isn't possible, because when asking a question, "who" always requires a third-person singular verb form, so it has to be, "Who is coming to the party?"

When some people say, "Who all are coming to the party?" they mean, "Who is coming to the party?" but they assume the answer will include more than one person.
Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6771
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

Usage of "Who all" #12 (permalink) Sat Mar 08, 2008 16:48 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Quote:
but if their goal is clear communication in an international context, then they have to drop all those eccentricities and adhere to the general standard.

Most native speakers I know are bidialectal. Aren't you? Most native speakers can use there home "dialect" for intranational purposes and the standard dialect for international communication. I know a lot of Indians who can do the same.

Even so, it doesn't make "who are...?" incorrect in Indian English, does it? That was the question.

Quote:
Indians are famous among native English speakers and foreigners living in English-speaking countries for being next to impossible to understand at times,

I'm a near-native speaker and I find many Americans and their films hard to understand at times. A little familiarisation with accent and usage other than your own goes a long way.

<Did I write "substandard", or did I write "nonstandard"? Do you think I don't know my own language?>

Is there a need for you to be so rude, Jamie?

Quote:
You have got to be a beginning student in a linguistics department somewhere. That would be the most probable reason you'd be moralizing with me like that and are willing to accept any nonstandard usage without regard for the communicative outcome for the speaker.

Wrong on all counts there, Jamie.

Quote:
Technically, it's not correct. It's slang that means, "I find this experience temporarily extremely pleasurable."

What do you mean by "technically" there, Jamie?
Molly
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Usage of "Who all" #13 (permalink) Sat Mar 08, 2008 23:49 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Molly wrote:
Most native speakers I know are bidialectal. Aren't you?

No.

I'm multilingual, but my native dialect of English is the North American broadcast variety.

Molly wrote:
Most native speakers can use there home "dialect" for intranational purposes and the standard dialect for international communication.

Yes, this is an elementary concept of linguistics.

Molly wrote:
I know a lot of Indians who can do the same.

The problem for most Indians is that they CAN'T do the same. Their grammar and vocabulary problems are fossilized, and they use odd forms like "was been go" no matter who they're trying to talk to or how formal or international they want to be. Telling these people they can do whatever floats their boat and that everything is beautiful in its own way does them a disservice if they want to be able to speak more than their local non-native variety.

Molly wrote:
I'm a near-native speaker and I find many Americans and their films hard to understand at times.

Probably because you hear with an accent.

Molly wrote:
A little familiarisation with accent and usage other than your own goes a long way.

What's the difference whether I understand him? Just being understandable isn't sufficient in professional communication.

Here's a funny video about Indian English.

Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6771
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

Usage of "Who all" #14 (permalink) Sun Mar 09, 2008 14:22 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Quote:
Yes, this is an elementary concept of linguistics.

I think you'll find that it's a fact, Jamie.

Quote:
Probably because you hear with an accent

I understand British English films.

Quote:
What's the difference whether I understand him? Just being understandable isn't sufficient in professional communication.

Now that does sound like elementary linguistics.

Quote:
Their grammar and vocabulary problems are fossilized,

I see you don't know much about Indian English.

Quote:
if they want to be able to speak more than their local non-native variety.

But their variety IS native. There are many native varietĦes of English. In my country, Nigeria, for example, many people have Nigerian English as their native variety.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Usage of "Who all" #15 (permalink) Sun Mar 09, 2008 14:39 pm   Usage of "Who all"
 

Molly wrote:
Quote:
Their grammar and vocabulary problems are fossilized,

I see you don't know much about Indian English.

I do know plenty about it. I deal with it in people on a daily basis. I also read Indian magazines from time to time (in which the English can range from very good to almost unintelligible), and I've got a shelf of dictionaries of Indian English that I use regularly.

Molly wrote:
Quote:
if they want to be able to speak more than their local non-native variety.

But their variety IS native. There are many native varietĦes of English. In my country, Nigeria, for example, many people have Nigerian English as their native variety.

Yes. I have also had to deal quite a bit with that Nigerian English, which is partly a pidgin or creole language. They also usually have a lot of fossilized errors (not merely "alternative forms"), and it blocks their advancement in professions where correct English is necessary. These people do not speak any sort of variety natively, but began life speaking Ibo, Yoruba or some other Nigerian language as a native language, and they didn't learn English until they got to school. However, they will still bogusly claim that English is their first language, not because it really is, but because they think of their African language as "not a language".
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6771
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

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